Bodybuilding Forums

OK, so after having tried (and eliminated) a whole pantheon of supplements over the years, a combination of some new research articles I've stumbled across, a few things I've seen batted around forums here and elsewhere, and Mark's post a while back on NOXplode (from BSN, makers of some of the world's worst garbage), I think I'm gonna fiddle with supplements next cycle - which will start the 5th of June. Was kind of curious if anyone else had tried any of these, so I figured I'd fling up a post, and if nothing else I have somewhere to talk results later.

So... bulk cycle... dropping the ephedra for obvious reasons. Dropping Conjugated Linoleic Acid, as I am aware of no research of it being useful for anything other than weight loss. Leaves me creatine (5g before and 5g after each workout), glucosamine/chondroitin/MSM complex, omega 3-6-9 complex (2g in total], ZMA, and my multivitamin.

I intend to add 3g of AAKG to my pre-workout creatine dose. Also tacking on L-Argnine-Ornithine (yes related to but no not the same as AAKG) at bedtime without food, basically alongside the ZMA. If any of y'all have tried either of these, please, I'm all ears, tell me everything you know. Otherwise, that cycle should end in August - the 13th to be precise - and I'll post my own trials and tribulations sometime between start and end of the cycle.

Anyone else planning supplement experimentation?

Hey joh

When i bulk im usually the experiment , man i throw alot of crap down me, everytime i see zma popping up here in the forums theres always something playing in the back of my mind about it but i cant fully recall what it is i think you cant take dairy products with it for some reason i cant bloomin put my complete finger on it DONT QUOTE ME ON THIS ONE AGAIN IM GOING BY MEMORY but i think there is something about it i must goggle it when i get the chance, iv used it before and all i got was a reason to shave more often after about 3 weeks use thats the only effect i got from it, it didnt have any effect on me at all and i used it 2 months.

Heres two i like HMB!!! and BETA-ALANINE along with my creatine i think they are awesome better than any N.O mix, everyone reacts differently but in my honest opinion maximuscles CREATAMAX EXTREME is unbeleivable compared to any other supplement i ever tried MAN you could train all day on that stuff yeah its a little pricey but talk about strength increases going through the roof.AND the best ALL-IN-ONE IS USN MUSCLE FUEL ANABOLIC, again it is pricey but if you look at the supplements you get in it and the quality carbs protein and fat content there really is no comparison out there i think i used it for 2 months last year and put on real quality mass, supplement wise you dont need to add anything else to your diet this stuff has it all to make you grow. these would be the most likely supps i will use in my bulking phase, although my wife thinks i need a supplement to kill the acute aroma of toxic gas that leaks from me once in a while I LOVE THE SMELL OF MY GAS

I'm actually toying with dropping the ZMA, despite usually recommending it - there's medical issues at play for me that may be rendering it totally worthless, regardless of how well or poorly it works for "normal" guys (and geez don't I just love being abnormal sometimes... ) In other news, you're partly right, dairy + ZMA = waste o' money - the calcium will altogether block uptake of the ZMA supp. You're supposed to take it on an empty stomach right before bed.

About that Maximuscles product... GEEBUS that's pricey! That's like fifty bucks!! I seriously think my debit card just shrieked in my pocket... lol... I'll keep an eye out for it states-side - it has spiffy packaging and an Arnold-sized-spokesperson type name, so it's bound to end up in our supplement shops sooner or later The USN product... really? It's that good? I'd almost give it a go on a lark if it weren't prohibitively expensive over here, despite my initial reactions looking at the supplement info on USN's website. This must be what you guys go through on everything else... I suddenly feel your pain!

You're like the umpteen bazillionth person to mention HMB and Beta-Alanine... the Beta-Alanine I'm on the fence about, and you might be pushing me over. There's some very compelling research surrounding stacking beta-alanine and creatine (like 40% strength gains vs 8% with creatine alone, and the study comes from the same Dr. Harris that first proved the efficacy of creatine... ) You notice any unwanted side effects using it? Or does it just put you all monster-mode at the gym? Stuff is stupid cheap - like I can find the Now Foods one for $25 shipped on Amazon, for 500g, which if I understand the research I'm finding, at 3g a day with your creatine, that would last you for like 160 some odd doses... Actually... on that note... this critter just got added to my June experiment

The HMB I can find lots of studies revolving around AIDS and cancer related wasting (typically HMB/arginine/glutamine stack, like this one for efficacy and this one for safety), but for just athletic performance, I get a lot of studies like this onethat basically call it worthless.[/url] Dunno. I might try this for the same reasons I might chuck ZMA, just can't make up my mind... though considering the studies I've seen that do show any efficacy at all are at the 3g mark for dosage, and the price tag on that is like OMG... like on the scale of a buck a day to say nothing of the bazillion pills... What dose are you taking? Powder? Pill? Hell of a long shot but you got a brand in mind I can try and hunt down over here?

Hey joh

When i cut this is when i start to buy my supplements for my next bulk, i usually buy one product fortnightly then by the time im finished my cut of about 12 weeks i have most of my supplements already got and i just need a few things along the way, i find doing it this way alot easier on the pocket than throwing out the cash for each thing once a month, that just pisses me off.

Yep here we go
MYPROTEIN.CO.UK HMB £12.79/250G POWDER i take it 2g twice a day for the first month of my bulk i take 1 in the morning, and 1 pre-workout with my creatine, glutamine and b.c.a.a, i sip a protein-shake through my workout also, then post-workout is another protein shake then 20mins later is USN MUSCLE FUEL ANABOLIC, this is the only time i drink liquid protein as i think this is the best time to take them for recovery and growth the rest of my diet is solids! I also take glutamine at night.

My second month of bulk, i add in beta-alanine into my supplements 2 weeks into my second month BULKSUPPLEMENTSDIRECT.CO.UK £31.99 6 week course, i drop the creatine and glutamine pre-workout and replace it with creatamax extreme as it contains both so in essence you are going to be just out 5 pound a week with this product.

Third month stays the same as my second month supplement wise, USN MUSCLE FUEL ANABOLIC contains hmb, creatine, glutamie, bcaa, ribose and a few other supplement so its got post workout covered when you calculate all this up compared to what you would spend on each product it doesnt seem as expensive as first thought, the only downside is the protein is a little low with this product but i take a protein shake as soon as i drop my last set to counter-act this slight hic-up anyway, but you should gain quality mass with this product i know i do, i get this in my local supplement shop for £40 and it does what it says on the tin.

You start to feel the benefits of the hmb after a month like most products it usually takes this amount of time to feel any of them, i find it keeps the muscles really solid to the touch and makes lactic acid nearly obsolete through the workouts, the beta-alanine really gives your muscles diesel along with the creatamax your muscles feel and look huge with no fatigue whatsoever through each and every workout and the strength increases each week really amaze me , honestly i could train all day with what iv outlined, and for the duration of my bulk i just tweak at my diet oh and i almost forgot my MULTI VITAMIN and OMEGA's . I didn't notice any sides to the beta-alanine and i dont know if these companies ship stateside, its a bit of a double edged sword, internet shops stateside sell there supps dirt cheap here but by the time you pay for delivery to here it totals to a ridiculous price.

What other supplements would you recommend joh?

What else do I recommend? At this point - nothing. Now as to what I've ruled out (based on my personal experience, sorry if I bash anything you like)...

Kre-Alkalyn is garbage.
The USP Labs line contains lots of garbage - some folks tell me OxyElite Pro is awesome, I think it's placebo effect, and Jack3d better make you feel great with that much caffeine in it - but otherwise it's 2nd rate creatine with beta alanine, AAKG, and some truly worthless herbals. I hear good things about Recreate and Pink Magic, but looking at the ingredients I don't believe a word of it.
My experience with BSN products is they will make you lose TONS of weight and leave you MUCH leaner - on your monthly budget, that is.
The new Hydroxycut is ephedra (and effect) free.
Lipo-6 = the in front of the counter cold meds (synephrine) + No Doz + guggulsterones (which more recent research indicates may actually backfire) and yohimbine (which is worthless on its own, and equally worthless in this product).
Acai is both strangely spelled and strangely a widely recommended waste of your money - along with bitter orange, hoodia, African mango, and green tea (as a supp).
And Chromium Picolinate is often recommended for weight loss - though experience dictates it makes not a whit of difference, and the research I've found since the moons ago I tried it indicate all it will do is cause renal failure at super high doses.

SOoooooooooooo....................... yeah... if any of these work, I'll actually have something new to recommend!

Hey joh

I'v been googling constantly about test boosters and can't find one single product that would be beneficial to naturally raise your own natural test levels high enough to have a single effect on ( hypertrophy ) NOT ONE SINGLE PRODUCT!!!!!!!!!
Not even if you were 70 years old would any of these products help you get to the toilet quicker , these companies are getting away with daylight robbery and nothing can be done about it

They are raising your tests levels, SO THEY ARE WITHIN THE LAW UNFORTUNATELY but definitly not enough to make you feel or notice any different, JUST LIKE MOST OF THE REST OF THE BULLSHIT THAT WE THROW OUR CHILDRENS COLLEGE MONEY AT , you would have to buy 2 or 3 different products to try and make something work and probably end up with a screwed face

Iv read through marks tspa the other day and he talked about when you where a child and how you still grew like crazy from birth to the end of puberty because of your own natural growh hormone without cals or natural foods from the earth blah blah, it was interesting to read so i decided to google HGH and NATURAL HGH i found my reading very interesting, i still am unsure as to how safe they are and ARE THEY ANY WORSE FOR YOU THAN TEST BOOSTERS i couldn't quite make a decision from what i did read, I DEFINITLY WOULD NOT BE ON FOR PUTTING A FOREIGN SUBSTANCE IN MY BODY AS I HAVE DONE ALOT BETTER WITH MY STRENTGH AND PHYSIQUE than quite alot of steriod abusers in my gym up unto now and can quite happily live without that garbage.

IS HGH GOOD OR BAD? IS IT A NATURAL OR ARTIFICIAL SUBSTANCE? IS IT SAFE? WOULD YOU RECOMMEND IT? IT THINK YOU KNOW WHAT IM ASKING FROM YOU SOOOOOOO PLEASE ENLIGHTEN ME AS TO YOUR OPINION ON THIS MATTER, THE WEBSITE I LOOKED UP IS http://www.hgh.info/ CHEERS BRO

LALA wrote:Hey joh

I'v been googling constantly about test boosters and can't find one single product that would be beneficial to naturally raise your own natural test levels high enough to have a single effect on ( hypertrophy ) NOT ONE SINGLE PRODUCT!!!!!!!!!
Not even if you were 70 years old would any of these products help you get to the toilet quicker , these companies are getting away with daylight robbery and nothing can be done about it

They are raising your tests levels, SO THEY ARE WITHIN THE LAW UNFORTUNATELY but definitly not enough to make you feel or notice any different, JUST LIKE MOST OF THE REST OF THE BULLSHIT THAT WE THROW OUR CHILDRENS COLLEGE MONEY AT , you would have to buy 2 or 3 different products to try and make something work and probably end up with a screwed face

There is one... the active compound in 6-OXO (no longer manufactured), 4-Androstene-3,6,17-trione, is a highly effective suicidal aromatase inhibitor. Aromatase oxidizes free testosterone into estradiol. 6-OXO binds to the aromatase and basically causes the enzyme to self-destruct when it attempts to oxidize the substance. Less aromatase means less conversion to estradiol means higher testosterone levels, especially considering you're also interrupting the feed back to the HPG axis that tells the body when to release more testosterone and when to stop - and basically tricks it into thinking gee no waste in the system must mean no product, better make more.

Long term use can cause your estradiol to be too low (yes there is such a thing as too little estrogen in men) which brings a host of side effects. Coming off of it can cause your estrogen to rebound - basically your body has been producing aromatase like mad because it needs it and you keep killing it, and once you stop killing it your body doesn't immediately turn production back down. This can lead to fat gain around the waist, testicular atrophy, and gynecomastia. Oh, and it's freaking expensive.

LALA wrote:Iv read through marks tspa the other day and he talked about when you where a child and how you still grew like crazy from birth to the end of puberty because of your own natural growh hormone without cals or natural foods from the earth blah blah, it was interesting to read so i decided to google HGH and NATURAL HGH i found my reading very interesting, i still am unsure as to how safe they are and ARE THEY ANY WORSE FOR YOU THAN TEST BOOSTERS i couldn't quite make a decision from what i did read, I DEFINITLY WOULD NOT BE ON FOR PUTTING A FOREIGN SUBSTANCE IN MY BODY AS I HAVE DONE ALOT BETTER WITH MY STRENTGH AND PHYSIQUE than quite alot of steriod abusers in my gym up unto now and can quite happily live without that garbage.

IS HGH GOOD OR BAD? IS IT A NATURAL OR ARTIFICIAL SUBSTANCE? IS IT SAFE? WOULD YOU RECOMMEND IT? IT THINK YOU KNOW WHAT IM ASKING FROM YOU SOOOOOOO PLEASE ENLIGHTEN ME AS TO YOUR OPINION ON THIS MATTER, THE WEBSITE I LOOKED UP IS http://www.hgh.info/ CHEERS BRO

HGH is absolutely critical to your ongoing existence on this mortal coil. Deficiencies cause all manner of nightmarish issues - wasting, think skin that easily tears, forgetfulness, broken bones, slow to non-healing wounds, and on and on the list goes. It is a completely natural substance that your body manufactures in teeny tiny doses every day. HGH is available as an injectable, and is the exact same bioidentical compound as what your body makes - it's just manufactured in a lab instead of made inside somebody's brain. Most insurances these days in the US will cover the prescription if you have a hormonal issue necessitating treatment, so I'm betting NHS on the other side of the pond will, too, but I could be wrong.

As to all the over the counter crap... oh where to start...

HGH, real live honest-to-God HGH that works and has a benefit of any kind, is an injectable. Anything that is not an injectable is not HGH, end of story. What you will find marketed instead is these "releasers". So the theory goes if you give the body the materials that should provoke an HGH response, you will provoke an HGH response and POOF! Same effect as the shot. Great in theory, not so easily executed in practice. I'm aware of one study demonstrating an effective HGH releaser. There are, however, ALL KINDS of studies disproving a litany of substances claiming to do the same thing. As to the products on the site you linked... yeah no. Proprietary special blends where they won't tell you what's in them may as well be sawdust - because if they worked and were proven effective, they'd tell you what was in it and let you do your own homework and reach the same conclusion.

Hey joh

I hear you, if i went into my doc and asked him for a prescription for hgh he'd laugh his head off and probably would too, i know what you are saying about tricking your body into making more testerone with the 6-oxo but i did here it wreaked havoc on your estrogen levels which cause problems, alot of people think that estrogen is bad bit it isn't it is a big part of our dna and vital to growth. Marks right test boosters are a waste of time, better test boosters definitly could be made and made to acheive great results but there is tooo much money to be made with this other junk ( A BIT LIKE TOOTHPASTE )
LLLLLLLLLMMMMMMMMMMMAAAAAAAAAAOOOOOOOOOOO , NO ONE QUESTIONS THE TOOTHPASTE HYPE IM SURPRISED THEY HAVENT BROUGHT A MAGAZINE

Ah well onwards and upwards, cardio vascular fitness is another great way to raise natural test lavels but how much food would we need if we were trying to acheive muscle and fitness

So I got some first impressions I thought I'd report back.

Pre-workout stack is a teaspoon of creatine so like 5-7g, 3g of beta alanine, 3g of AAKG.

And YEP can tell it's got beta alanine in it! I get random tingling in random places, kind of like a niacin flush but instead of always being my face it's where ever it feels like. Also noticed I'm sweating a lot heavier than ever before. Not that this is a big deal, just no more recycling my gym t-shirts

I am having some difficulties with the timing. It seems about 20 minutes before hitting the gym floor to warm up is optimal - though it's still too early for me to decide that's that, I just noticed the biggest difference the one day I was off work and took this right before driving to the gym. I am also noticing that instead of coming back from my week off weaker like usually happens with me, on most exercises I'm flat and a few I'm actually up a few pounds. Definitely seeing fatigue delayed, too - like if I can get the timing right it feels like someone hit the monster mode button and off I go, it's just that damn timing. Too soon before the gym and it kicks in half way through, too long before the gym and it wears off halfway through. But so far, so good! No real strong negatives, but some at least perceived positives - I'll just have to wait and see what the numbers and the good ol' work out logs bear out as this cycle progresses.

Hey joh

AAAAAHHaaaaaaaa so you got excited and started taking beta-alanine from the get go TUT TUT
Did you preload for five days like creatine to get it into your system? You want to preload 3g twice a day then drop to 3g if you did already but forgot to mention then im sorry the way i took it before was like i mentioned above i left it to the last six weeks of my 12 week creatine cycle because it kickstarts everything again as im sure you agree joh you stop feeling the effects of creatine after about 6 weeks and you reap the rewards again of feeling something working with your body.
IMAGINE ME GIVING YOU ADVICE NOW I KNOW HOW YOU FEEL ( IT FEELS GOOOOOOOOOD )

I plan a bulk from the first of july and i might be interested in trying this aakg that you mention i never tried it before so i might give it a go to see what its like, also i see usp labs do a bcaa complex called MODERN BCAA its got a 8-1-1 ratio which looks interesting have you seen it yet? im enjoying full body workouts 3x a week at the moment with lots of cardio with the wife and kids at the moment but i am itching to get back to doing a bulk in a couple of weeks, its not that im loosing muscle I JUST LIKE EATING .

I invested in a pair of lifting hooks to try them out in place of my straps WOW what a difference it made to my back excercises today totally took the pressure away from my grip and fore-arms, what was interesting was the better contractions i had with using them i was fit to increase my second set by 7kg all over because it took the fatigue away from those areas in which i thought was not really an issue, can't wait to trust them a bit better to see what they can really do for me definitly one of the better investments iv done in a while, really impressed with them. Sorry for going off the beaten track

Oh a friend give me some jack3d on monday to try out!!!! What a load of B.S that is the worst stuff i ever tried in my life, it give me the worst feeling ever i dont know how people can say this garbage is good, my squat looked like a break dance i had that much jitters, i actually felt depressed fo about 5 hrs after my workout, theres too much of a shock to the system too quickly with that stuff for the body to handle and then it leaves you too quickly also which gives that depressed felling, thats the best way i can describe it, definitley didn't like it and wont be trying it again