Bodybuilding Forums

Hey everyone!

First, let me start off by quickly introducing myself. My name is Craig, 25; reside in sunny, humid, busy South Florida. I started working with an incredible trainer about a year ago. We spent the first 3-4 months really kicking my ass with intense endurance/cardio training. This truly got me into shape, not that I needed to lose weight, I am an Ectomorph
, but this laid the foundation for what was to come when we started hitting the iron. Once we began focusing on intense weight training, I quickly became the “king” of the gym…lol. This is due to my obsessive need to be the best at anything I become passionate about, not for self-glorifying or narcissistic reasons, simply because I do not want to waste my time doing something half-assed or incorrect. I am sure many of you can relate. What’s the point of dedicating yourself to something so life-consuming if you aren’t getting the best results/most out of it? Anyhow, if you’re interested, you can see a little glib on my “success” on my trainer’s website http://first-fitnesstraining.com/success-stories/. The pic is several months old; I have packed on a bit more size, but mainly some awesome definition since then. To highlight, I quickly gained nearly 20 pounds of muscle in the first few months. I train 5x a week, focusing each muscle group as we go with one day dedicated to pretty intense endurance cardio that really helps in the lean/definition department. My trainer really knows his stuff, his experience and knowledge is truly incredible. Anyhow, the training aspect is on the money, I have no issue with the amazing results I have achieved. It is the diet aspect that always has me frustrated and constantly questioning!

Since the beginning, I have been faithful with my protein intake, but it was the rest of my diet that has always been a bit more scattered and unorganized. As I said before, when I do something, I want to do it perfectly, so as I really began to see some impressive size and definition come along, I decided it was beyond time to get the diet up to par with the training. I began following Hugo Rivera’s lean diet advice http://bodybuilding.about.com/od/nutritionbasics/qt/tipshowtogetcut.htm, quickly losing the bit of fat that blanketed my stomach. After a few weeks, I can now see the benefits of all those painful ab exercises! The thing is, I have also dropped a few pounds. I know this is to be expected considering water weight and whatnot, but my largest fear is losing size or muscle. When I started training, I weighed in at around 160 lbs. (I’m 5’11 btw). At the time of my “success story” I was weighing in at around 183-185 lbs. I have maintained this weight until the Hugo diet, which has me clocking in at 174-176 lbs. Here is an example of my weekly (training days) diet:

Meal 1: Protein shake: (2) cups of skim milk, (2) scoops of EAS 100% Protein Powder, (1) egg, (2) tablespoons of Flaxseed oil, ¼ cup of Steel Cut Oatmeal, (1) banana, (2) cups of ice

Meal 2: (6) eggs (3 whole, 3 whites only) leafy green (usually lettuce or spinach leaves)

Meal 3: (2) skinless, boneless chicken breasts (equaling 8 ounces), leafy green (usually steamed broccoli or green beans)

Meal 4: Same as Meal 2: (6) eggs (3 whole, 3 whites only) leafy green (usually lettuce or spinach leaves)

Meal 5: Same as Meal 3: (2) skinless, boneless chicken breasts (equaling 8 ounces), leafy green (usually steamed broccoli or green beans)

WORKOUT

Meal 6: Post Workout Meal: Same as Meal 1 (minus Flaxseed oil): (2) cups of skim milk, (2) scoops of EAS 100% Protein Powder, (1) egg, ¼ cup of Steel Cut Oatmeal, (1) banana, (2) cups of ice

I follow this diet for 6 days, having a “free day” on the seventh. I have really been pouring over Mark’s amazing M.A.N.S. diet info, and am trying to figure out how to implement the perfect diet for my goals. Like everyone, I want to add more muscle (size) without getting fat (though I am mainly Ectomorphic, I can still garner the dreaded mid-section belly rolls if not careful). My trainer is satisfied with this lean/”free day” intake, and constantly reassures me that the weight fluctuations are to be expected and not to worry about losing any size (muscle) or definition. Though I trust him, I just want to be sure that I am dedicated to the appropriate diet. Thank you for reading and I truly look forward to all feedback and suggestions!

Wow! I looked over your diet and the first thing I noticed is that it couldn't be further from MANS!

I guess you're looking for alternative diets. I have eaten in various ways with various results. I'm 35 years old, 171 pounds and about 13.8% BF. I haven't been 10 percent since I was your age. I'm skinny fat (thin all over with a pad of fat on belly and small love handles.

Anyway, the diet you are noting here is missing fats (in my humble opinion). The biggest mistake I see bodybuilders make is cutting fats from everything. The fear is that fat makes you fat. The more close association with fat and weight is that fat adds more calories and combined with carbs and proteins, can lead to you getting fatter... Even if I was on a normal carb diet (which I have been plenty of times), I would still add fats to my diet, typically by sucking down a tablespoon of olive, flax, safflower or canola oil or mixing a blend of good oils in my night-time shake (great time for fats before bed with protein while sleeping to slow down protein digestion among other things).

Anyway, MANS is a completely different approach to eating. The anabolic/cyclic ketogenic diet, etc, is based off the principle that what stores body fat is excess insulin typically brought about by improperly timed or excessive consumption of carbohydrates. By severely cutting carbs, the body adapts by using dietary and body fat for energy. The increase in fat in this diet has clinically been proven to improve lipid profiles (in healthy individuals), hormonal benefits for bodybuilders, among other things. The anabolic/MANS/CKD concept takes the simple low carb diet and adds a bonus, the carb-up. By exploding the body with carbs every 5 days, a large amount of insulin is created and the body uses it effectively to replenish muscle and liver stores of glycogen and aid muscle building through several means.

So, the diet is much different than the modern bodybuilding diet. It shatters the myth that you have to have a very strict and unforgiving diet to gain muscle and lose fat at the same time.

If you start MANS, you have a lot of support here. You have nothing to lose if you try it out, but if you do, give it good 2-3 months to really know if it works for you.

Some downfalls to this diet (and it's up to you to balance them):

1) Carb-ups can lead to mega-binging on junk food
2) The low carb phase lacks fruits and vegetables that are considered a good balance of vitamins & minerals
3) The low carb phase is not high in natural forms of fiber (9upplementation is advised)
4) The low carb phase requires strong discipline (cheating will mess stuff up big time) I gained 2% body fat after I crashed on this diet once.
5) The diet can get boring for some, eating the same foods over and over.
6) The induction period can include tiredness that can get some people to ditch it early
7) The diet can be more expensive, although you can buy dark meat chicken and fatty cuts of meat, which are alot cheaper than super lean chicken breasts.

Some benefits and ways around the downfalls are available:

1) Eat spinach and other greens for vitamins, nutrients and fiber.
2) Eat good fats, not just animal fats. This particularly good to balance out saturated fats.
3) Eat lots of fruits and veggies on your carb-up days.
4) Have a binge meal (one all-out eat anything) to alleviate restricted feelings (this shouldn't affect mass gains, even lean ones)
5) Consider fresh meats more than processed (bacon, sausage, pepperoni). Consider organic beef or grass fed.
6) Look for creative ways to eat good. Low carb pizza, 'french fries' from celery root or rutabaga, cobb salad (good stuff)
7) Look for fun rewarding low carb foods too. Sugar free jello, strawberries with cream, etc.
8) Allow a full 10-12 weeks on the diet before you determine if it works/doesn't work.

Why don't you switch to all whole eggs instead of using half egg whites? That'll add in a few more fat calories for ya. Are you eating your leafy greens dry? If so, why?! Add some oil!

Why do you omit oil from your last meal? That'd be a good time to add it, so as to slow absorption of the meal and hold you while you fast overnight.

Oh, and you're still young, so you probably haven't learned this the hard way yet. There is no perfect. So you can forget that. I don't want you to get accustomed to being an overachiever and never having to deal with failure. I got kind of cocky a few months ago and now I'm dealing with emotional problems/disordered eating due to unbalanced brain chemistry. Only the time I spent getting over my perfectionism has kept me coming back here and sticking to it however imperfectly and no matter how many times I slip up I'll keep starting again. If I hadn't already had to learn this painful lesson, I probably would've hit these problems and because I wasn't perfect, given up, backslid, and have tons of catch-up work and so much wasted time and heartache.

Anyways... You didn't mention your lean body mass or how many grams of protein you're getting per day, so I can't really critique your protein intake. Otherwise, everything you're doing looks good, but as always, you can probably add more fat to prevent you from going into calorie deficit and losing muscle mass, and a greater variety of vegetables is an improvement absolutely anyone can make. HTH!

Thank you guys for the amazing responses! This is helping me out SO much!

Okay, to answer the questions.

First, my daily consumption of protein is around 300 grams. This is derived from the 2 protein shakes, 4 chicken breasts, and 12 eggs. Eating all 12 eggs whole would increase my intake to around 328 grams.

Second, my bf % has lingered in the 10%-12% range since my gain from 165 lbs. to 180 lbs. I have been using 180 lbs. as my "lean body weight".

Third, I cut the flaxseed oil from the second shake due to Hugo Rivera's suggestion: Consume your essential fats: These fats are highly important for general health, muscle protection and for fat loss! A deficiency of these and not only energy levels will suffer but you will also encounter issues gaining muscle and losing fat. 2 Tablespoons of Flaxseed Oil with any meal or protein shake (except the post workout one as at this time we do not want the fats to slow down the absorption of the nutrients).

I usually steam the veggies, but do consume them raw. I am very strict-minded, so I took everything in Mr. Rivera's diet suggestions to heart http://bodybuilding.about.com/od/nutritionbasics/qt/tipshowtogetcut.htm.

As for calories, let's see, majority comes from my protein sources. The first shake with flaxseed oil would make appx. 1005 calories. The 4 chx breast: 520 calories. The dozen whole eggs: 840 calories. The final shake: 745 calories. So, basically, thats a total of 3110 calories per day, not counting the minimal amount I get via the leafy greens.

So, let's say my lean body mass is 180 lbs., I am 25, 5'11, consuming 3110 calories per day, which includes 2 tablespoons of flaxseed oil (essential fats). I consume 328 grams of protein and average 182 carb grams a day.

The caloric and protein intake was a smidge lower when I consumed 6 egg whites, and then six whole eggs. The numbers above reflect the full dozen, consumed whole, total.

I have followed this for 3, nearly 4 weeks and dropped about 10 pounds....thats why I was concerned. I DON'T wanna lose size/muscle!

Marochka_raduga, thank you for the life advice! Yes, I know I am still young and naive, but I too have suffered my fair share of disappointments and let-downs. Usually these came when I was doing all that I could humanly do to be the "best" and "perfect" at whatever the situation was. I quickly learned that some things are just going to happen regardless of what you do or don't do about them. Actually, after suffering one my life's (thus-far) greatest disappointments, I wrestled with a pretty severe depression for about six months. Getting into bodybuilding was one of the major contributors to my freedom from that emotional prison. Learning that in the end, it is ME who I can always depend on, I focused much of that loss, anger, energy, and aggression into my workouts, forever changing the way I viewed the world, but more importantly, myself. I guess you could say I finally grew up and learned the often very hard life lesson co-dependence to self-dependence.

But, my nature is still "perfectionism", and I can't help but attaching that to anything I am passionate about. Since I am certainly extremely passionate (obsessed) with my bodybuilding journey, I tend to over-criticize and over-do everything it entails. Good thing I have my trainer to prevent me from over-training cause I am certainly always thinking I didn’t lift enough, do enough, eat enough, cut enough, push myself enough, etc. It drives me crazy, but at least I realize what I am doing to myself. I am grateful for the passion, but like many of us, I have to learn to harness and control it!

So given this new information, how can I further tweak this diet into the best possible version for me?

Thank you again guys for ALL your help! I am MORE than grateful!