Bodybuilding Forums

Yes, I know - this post has been put up a million times; I've seen it before. The problem is that the search function won't let me find it because protein and fat are too common of words on this forum.

MANS hasn't helped me gain weight, in fact, I lost about 8 lbs since I started (Jan 2009). I dropped body fat, which was good - but I didn't have much to begin with. So I'm trying to sit down and evaluate exactly how much to eat, but it's giving me some strange answers...

I'm probably around 15% body fat, and ~172 lbs (maybe one or two more, it's hard to tell with water weight fluctuations). We'll say 170.

This makes my lean body mass roughly 145 lbs, which means my RMR is 370 + (21.6 * 145/2.2) = 1793.

My job consists of sitting on my futon and programming for Google, so that's pretty light work - multiply my RMR by 1.5, and I get 2690 for my resting calorie expenditure a day.

I lift five days a week on Mark's THT program, and it comes to roughly an hour, maybe a little less a day - that's about 240 calories probably. My heart get pumping pretty hard sometimes up there. So 2690+240 = 2861 calories a day, for maintenance.

I need to bulk though - and I'm an ectomorph with a crazy metabolism. Add 500 calories for bulking to this, and we've got 3,361 calories a day for five days of the week.

Once you average it all out [(3,361 * 5) + (3,190 * 2)] / 2 = ~3308 calories a day for maintenance. Looks like eating is about to be a full time job...

Here's the weird part though. I should be eating about 175-200g of protein a day (2.75 * ~66 kg). Lets say I get 720 calories a day from protein (4 cals per gram of protein * 180 g), 120 a day from carbs (4 cals per gram of carbs * 30g) - that leaves me with a whopping 2468 cals a day from fat, or 274 grams of fat a day.

Is that right? How the hell can I eat that much fat?

I think you're looking at the problem backwards. You've lost 9 pounds in 5 months. So that's a deficit of a little less than 400 calories per day, I'd say. If you want an excess of 500 for gaining, that means you need to eat 900 more per day than you are. How many calories per day have you averaged (gross, not net?) in that time?

It may not be fair, but your multiplier is clearly higher than 1.5. Mine is clearly much lower, on the order of 1.25. I'd be glad to trade you, and you could make modest gains on 2200 calories per day and I could eat fajitas and ice cream and chocolate chip cookies and curly fries with queso.

In regards to eating that much fat, it's easy. Honestly I must have a massive appertite compared to some on here, anyways down some double/heavy cream. If you buy a 300ml pot (not much) and take it all you'll get about 6-7g carbs, 5g protein and a whopping 150g fat, no you may want to eat it all at once, just eat it throughout the day and make sure you finish it, thats one way and there are plenty of others, add butter to your eggs, make some flax bread and toast it and smear a load of butter on that, low protein/low carb cheeses. In some cases you'll need to eat the same things becuase low carbers do have many choices but obviously not as many as others, but you should be able to get the fat in with those tips, no problemo.

I think it's so easy to reach your amount on this diet and thats not great for me becuase I dont feel like I've eaten much and even though were supposed to feel less hungry I often feel Like I haven't eaten when I finish a tub of cream.

hey hope that helps and you get the results you want, all the best

WHO AM I wrote:I think it's so easy to reach your amount on this diet and thats not great for me becuase I dont feel like I've eaten much and even though were supposed to feel less hungry I often feel Like I haven't eaten when I finish a tub of cream.

I think there are just those of us for whom low carb does not kill the appetite like it's "supposed to". And then people tell us, oh, well obviously if you just eat more fat and lower your carbs some more, your appetite will go away and you'll be forgetting to eat. NOW HONESTLY, HOW MANY TIMES IN THE LAST DECADE HAVE YOU EVER FORGOTTEN TO EAT?! It's bloody ridiculous. If I just eat more fat and lower my carbs more, all I'll have to show for it is an empty belly and more fat stored.

I'm going to be doing some research on hyperinsulinemia to see if I can figure out a way to get around this stupid constant low blood sugar. I eat, my blood sugar goes down. Not into dangerous territory, but apparently no matter what or when I eat, my body releases enough insulin (and I think I'm pretty gosh-darn insulin sensitive) to scoop up everything I eat and then some, leaving my blood sugar lower than when I ate and causing me to store too much fat and feel hungry all the time.

Trust me, you hardgainers, it sucks just as bad as your problem. Except you're only reminded of yours when you look in the mirror and feel dissatisfied. I'm reminded of mine then AND all the moments of the day when I feel crappy because I'm hungry even though I just ate.

WHO AM I wrote:...down some double/heavy cream. If you buy a 300ml pot (not much) and take it all you'll get about 6-7g carbs, 5g protein and a whopping 150g fat

Here's the thing though. I'd have drink about 600 ml of that every day, which gets pretty expensive - a few hundred dollars a month. Unless I start selling crack on the side, there's no way I can afford that... or three sticks of butter a day - which sounds delicious but adds up again.

I think it's so easy to reach your amount on this diet and thats not great for me becuase I dont feel like I've eaten much and even though were supposed to feel less hungry I often feel Like I haven't eaten when I finish a tub of cream.

Last week I snapped and ate a tub of ice cream before I went to bed. That may quite possibly be the most satisfying feeling in life, especially after low carbing. But hey, thanks for the suggestions, I'll go price things and see if I can find butter or cream cheaper.

Has anybody ever experimented with... tallow? I was looking at nutrition data, and it looks like one of the perfect foods. My buddy, who's in culinary school, told me its basically raw animal fat though, which doesn't sound so good, and I'd expect that once you cook it a lot of the fat burns off.

marochka_raduga wrote:I'm going to be doing some research on hyperinsulinemia to see if I can figure out a way to get around this stupid constant low blood sugar. I eat, my blood sugar goes down. Not into dangerous territory, but apparently no matter what or when I eat, my body releases enough insulin (and I think I'm pretty gosh-darn insulin sensitive) to scoop up everything I eat and then some, leaving my blood sugar lower than when I ate and causing me to store too much fat and feel hungry all the time.

I didn't even know that existed... it almost seems like a high-carb diet would be better for you then because it would keep your sugar up more. Actually, I don't know. That's a confusing puzzle

triple wrote:I didn't even know that existed... it almost seems like a high-carb diet would be better for you then because it would keep your sugar up more. Actually, I don't know. That's a confusing puzzle

And a high-carb diet makes my skin bad. Or rather, a low-carb diet artificially improves it. Had perfect skin as a teen, and it all went to crap in my 20s (thank goodness I'd already set the hook in my husband when I was a teen! ). But looking at both my parents, you could easily see that I was destined for bad skin eventually.

The generally recognized way to deal with hypoglycemia is to eat little bits of protein with your low-GI carbs as part of a high-carb diet, to keep your blood sugar from spiking and then crashing. But it's a little like driving with your feet on the brake and the gas at the same time. What I mean to say is that if I were to eat a high-carb diet, it wouldn't keep my sugar up. It'd just cause me to pump out even more massive doses of insulin and my cravings are insane. After my ice-cream bender at the beginning of this month, wherein I ate it probably 15 times over the course of a week (and would often leave one place and immediately go buy more-- the worst, horrific cravings ever!), I did manage to have a fasting blood sugar of 126 on a "morning after" reading, but after my workout it was already back under 90. It's pretty clear that a high-carb diet is a disaster for me, but a low-carb diet doesn't seem to be much better. Alcoholics can at least never have another drink, but I can't swear off food permanently, or at least if I do, I wouldn't have to endure it long!

Low GI is better than eating a diet of ho-hos and twinkies, but eventually it all gets converted to sugar and you're going to have to produce the insulin to deal with it, which means my fat stores will fling their doors wide and greet the newcomers with open arms. If only there existed meat that was chock full of fiber and vitamins/minerals (and wasn't actually entrails). I would totally go zero carb then. (I know, fiber is a carb, but I meant digestible carb)

I just had a zany idea. I wonder if I could somehow condense my spinach smoothies and use them in flaxmeal muffins just like I use pumpkin puree. I could use egg white as the liquid, instead of Almond Breeze... hmmm...

triple wrote:Here's the thing though. I'd have drink about 600 ml of that every day, which gets pretty expensive - a few hundred dollars a month. Unless I start selling crack on the side, there's no way I can afford that... or three sticks of butter a day - which sounds delicious but adds up again.

How much of the fattiest, cheapest hamburger can you buy for the same amount of cream or butter?

triple wrote:Last week I snapped and ate a tub of ice cream before I went to bed. That may quite possibly be the most satisfying feeling in life, especially after low carbing. But hey, thanks for the suggestions, I'll go price things and see if I can find butter or cream cheaper.

Ohhh... ice cream, you evil, vile temptress! My counselor told me (in the midst of my hellish battle royale with ice cream binges) that schizophrenic people truly swear by eating some ice cream when they start to feel their grip on reality slipping. They say there's something intrinsically grounding about it. It's not just a psychological addiction... I'm telling you, there's a chemical cascade going on causing physiological effects. In all seriousness.

I am gaining weight on MANS. I eat around 3000 cal a day. This what my day looks like

meal 1: 2 eggs, 4 strip bacon, shredded cheese, strawberries 400 calories
meal 2: ground turkey taco with low carb tortilla, cheese, sour cream, gaucamole, ranch sauce, and salsa 600 calories
meal 3: ground beef taco with low carb tortilla, cheese, sour cream, gaucamole, ranch sauce, and salsa 700 calories
meal 4: ground beef taco again 700 calories
meal 5: whey shake 110 calories
meal 6: brocolli doused with mayo and olive oil 200 calories. I do this for extra fat calories
meal 7: pumpkin almond bread: pumpkin puree, almond meal, soy protein, butter, eggs, spices, stevia, and peanut butter 500 calories

I finish the night with a tablespoon of flax seed oil and glutamine.

How does your diet look like? I seem to be gaining 1-2lbs a week with this plus 2 carb ups. I have one carb up on monday and another on thursday. I think i get less calories on carb up days but i mostly eat bread, chicken breast, sweet potato, and yogurt.

marochka_raduga wrote:I did manage to have a fasting blood sugar of 126 on a "morning after" reading, but after my workout it was already back under 90. It's pretty clear that a high-carb diet is a disaster for me, but a low-carb diet doesn't seem to be much better.

Above 123 or 127 (depending on test method) fasting blood sugar is clear diabetic territory. Even if you aren't actually a full-blown diabetic, you (like me) seem to have unstable blood sugar.

It really, really sucks. Lucky for me I can keep it fairly well controlled in the "normal" range by avoiding carbs almost entirely, except for green veggies. The slightest elevation in blood sugar and I'll see a crash down into the fifties or sixties, leaving me craving and shutting off my higher brain functions (like my ability to say "no").

That's why I'm swearing off the carb-ups on this current challenge. An indiscretion here or there is OK; a two-day bender is totally off the menu. Obesity is a disorder of excess fat accumulation, and for those of us who've been large that disorder continues to exist, starving the rest of our tissues except with the most careful management of our diets.

--Matt B.