Should I carb up on M.A.N.S

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Should I carb up on M.A.N.S

Postby James7869 on Wed Jul 27, 2011 7:36 pm

Slightly confused!

I'm currently on week 4, THT4, Volume 1, along with MANS diet. I'm seeing some gains in body shape, but as I still carry quite a bit of weight around mid section, I'm wondering if I should carb-up at all.
I know I should need a carb-up to induce an insulin spike to help growth, but Mark says "The key is just to watch the time it takes for you to begin to smooth-out (lose definition); it may take a little bit of experimentation at first and it will be different for everyone; 32 hours works great for me. You’ll notice that evey week you go through a mini-cycle of being bigger and smaller; this is just due to fluctuating water levels." Which is fine if you've got some definition. :D
So should I just concentrate with losing the belly on purely protien, fats and 30g carbs.
Any help would be great.

James7869.
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Re: Should I carb up on M.A.N.S

Postby eleischner on Wed Jul 27, 2011 8:23 pm

I think if you don't carb up you'll start to suffer fatigue while working out - You won't be restoring your muscle glycogen levels and as such your gym sessions and strength will suffer.
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Re: Should I carb up on M.A.N.S

Postby James7869 on Fri Jul 29, 2011 8:14 am

Thanx for the advice. I did have a lower than 30g carb amount the other day, and did feel lethargic throughout workout. So i'll stick to the plan like glue now.

Cheers,
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Re: Should I carb up on M.A.N.S

Postby carob999 on Sun Jul 31, 2011 6:44 pm

I have been 6 weeks without a carb up in the past and had more " energy " in the gym. With this diet you rely on fat as your main energy source. The added glycogen does add somewhat of a turbo boost , if you will , but not being glycogen loaded shouldn't cause your energy to suffer. If it does then you are not adapted to the diet. By saying "you" I'm implying anyone in general not you specifically.But to answer your actual question, yes the insulin spike does help the muscle growth process but you can also build muscle during the low carb phase. It's not : Low Carb= fat loss only and High Carb= only way to build muscle. Both phases work of each other to put it simply. An interesting side note for me is that my arm measurements don't change from one phase to the next ( carb loaded vs. depleted).
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Re: Should I carb up on M.A.N.S

Postby Vanguard1965 on Sun Jul 31, 2011 11:34 pm

Carob999 the only thing is if you don't carb up you will crash your metabolism. The lower your BF% the more often the carb up is required.
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Re: Should I carb up on M.A.N.S

Postby carob999 on Tue Aug 02, 2011 8:09 pm

How do you " crash your metabolism " ? I don't even know what that is and never heard of anyone doing that! Drop calories to loose weight ; increase calories to gain weight. Your "metabolism" is mainly controlled/determined by your TOTAL body weight and to a lesser extent caloric intake. That's why all the nifty formulas for determining calorie needs exist. Though they may be a few hundred calories off either way, the formulas have been proven to be accurate. I have been doing this diet for over fifteen years and other diets before that. I went back and checked my logs and I actually went 10 weeks on the low carb portion with no carb ups and lost more body fat during that period than any other with no slow down in sight. Remember as your body weight decreases so does your caloric needs so if you hit a wall you need to drop your calories. What you may be doing with the carb ups ( in my experience ) is taking in a lot of calories on say Saturday and for the next 2 or 3 day your appetite will be lessened to the extent that your weekly calories decrease to less than a straight low carb run ( even with a huge calorie spike on Saturday ). In other words that huge carb/calorie spike does help in that way but doesn't really cause metabolic problems by not eating carbs.
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Re: Should I carb up on M.A.N.S

Postby Vanguard1965 on Wed Aug 03, 2011 1:14 am

When I say crashing your metabolism I mean stalling your fat loss. Mark talks about this in TSPA.

When these people stall (and they inevitably do), they panic and further cut back on food intake. They'll lose fat for another few days or a week and stall once again. At this point they either quit or crank up their cardio to INSANE, unecessary, MUSCLE_WASTING proportions. this actually proves counter-productive. Their body slows its metabolism, and from this point on any further fat loss is accompanied by a corresponding loss in muscle mass.


The number one thing your body is designed to do is keep you alive for as long as possible when it thinks your starving to death. If you have 40% body fat you can drop calories and not really have to worry about your body thinking you’re starving to death because it knows you have a lot of fat and you’re in no danger of dying from starvation. When you get to lower body fat levels, in the teens, and you’re dropping to single digits for a bodybuilding competition your body knows you don't have a lot of fat and thus will do everything in its power to stop you from losing that small cushion of fat you have left. Leptin is the primary trigger by which your body measures body fat.

The following is a great explanation of Leptin and how it works and the reason when your cutting body fat that low you need to do carb ups to trick the body into thinking it’s not starving and keeping your metabolism high and burning those last few pounds. If you don't do this your metabolism will stall (crash) and you will stop losing.


Leptin

Leptin is a Protein hormone responsible for sending a signal to the brain to indicate how much fat we have in reserve and how many calories we have coming in. Leptin is released primarily from the fat cells and the level of Leptin in the body is directly proportional to the amount of body fat we are carrying. The higher the level of body fat, the higher the level of Leptin in the body. As body fat levels drop, Leptin levels also decline.

It is widely understood that the body attempts to maintain a “set point” with regard to body weight. Leptin is a key player in maintaining this set point. When we begin dieting and the body enters a state of caloric deficit, Leptin levels immediately begin to drop. Levels of Leptin can drop as much as 50% within 48 hours of beginning a diet. This drop in Leptin triggers a chain of events designed to maintain the body’s set point and prevent the body from losing weight. Steps in the chain of events to prevent weight loss include; decrease in the levels of brain dopamine, increase in hunger, increase in circulating Cortisol, decrease in thyroid hormone output, decrease in production of testosterone, and decrease in overall metabolic rate.

It can clearly be seen that this chain of events is counterproductive to our bodybuilding goals of maximizing fat loss and maintaining lean muscle. Therefore minimizing the drop in levels of Leptin when dieting is certainly key to reaching our goal of a lean muscular physique.

Ghrelin

Ghrelin is a hormone released from the stomach that is directly responsible for stimulating hunger. Studies suggest that the body’s release of Ghrelin actually adapts according to meal frequency and is a major reason that a person dieting becomes hungry in advance of regular meal times during the day. Increases in the release of Ghrelin cause increased hunger, increased fat storage and decreased overall metabolism. Levels of Ghrelin in the body are closely related to levels of Leptin. As Leptin levels fall, levels of Ghrelin increase. Therefore, as your body senses a caloric deficit and a decrease in stored fat, it signals an increase in the release of Ghrelin to stimulate hunger, and to decrease your metabolism; talk about counterproductive to your goals!

In addition to Leptin and Ghrelin, other hormones such as insulin, peptide YY, and also play significant roles in fat metabolism and anabolism and decreasing lipolysis when the body is in a state of prolonged caloric deficit. insulin secretion and sensitivity and it’s specific role in anabolism and fat metabolism will be the topic for part 2 of this series.

With our bodies seemingly fighting us right from the start when we begin to diet, how can we ever succeed? Fortunately, we have a method to combat these hormonal signalers that seek to derail our plans to get ripped. The secret weapons in our nal are carbs and calories! That’s right, when used properly the much maligned carbohydrate can help us prevent the reduction in Leptin levels and rise in Ghrelin levels which would otherwise stop our fat loss in it’s tracks.

The key to maintaining fat loss and keeping the hormones responsible for fat metabolism in the optimal ranges while dieting is the cycling of lower carb and calorie days with periodic higher carb and calorie days at regular and specific intervals. Increasing your carbs and calories in a planned and controlled fashion can and will help you burn more fat.

Cycling Your Carb Intake

Increasing total carbohydrate and calorie intake for one day, every 4-7 days during a contest prep diet can significantly increase Leptin levels and decrease Ghrelin levels preventing downregulation of the body’s metabolism. It’s important to note that increased carbohydrates are necessary for this process to occur. Simply increasing total calories without increasing carb intake does not create the same effect. Increasing carbohydrate consumption once every 4-7 days also has the added benefit of replenishing intramuscular glycogen stores and improving intramuscular cellular hydration.

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Re: Should I carb up on M.A.N.S

Postby carob999 on Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:48 pm

I must be a freak of nature ( and hundreds of people I've helped/known/worked with through the years ) because weight loss has never stalled to a point which a further calorie restriction didn't fix. Sure, if you starve yourself you end up with problems. Don't forget that Leptin is an inflammatory cytokine and high levels have been associated with most known degenerative diseases.The more you can increase your brain and receptor sensitivity to leptin the better. In other words it's not high levels of this hormone that are good but high sensitivity to it ! Think about the research that shows obese people with the highest levels of leptin , so it's obviously not the levels per se but the sensitivity to it, which the obese were lacking. If Leptin levels decrease up to 50% in 48 hours ( and it can ) then we should see our "diet " results stopping shortly thereafter, if it "stalls your metabolism',but we don't. You have to understand that we actually know very little about Leptin though some things you read on the internet make us think otherwise ( NOT referring to Mark in any way). My whole point is that we can get very deep into the scientific stuff and throw terms around but that doesn't change the fact that people have been loosing weight and or getting ripped for a very long time without knowing any of the crap we know today ( or applying it). So don't worry about "shutting down your metabolism " as they say. Yes, I know a lot of the science too but prefer not to throw it around too much. It's funny how none of this has to do with the O.P.'s question. My original answer still stands: Not having a "carb up will not slow down your progress as per MY EXPERIENCE and that of many others through out the years. Nor does the scientific evidence say it will. Science has actually shown that it's the miscounting of calories that has led to the idea of " faulty metabolisms". Not trying to be argumentative but we gain from others experiences more so than from throwing out scientific theories (not saying you specifically, but in general, although I have been guilty of this myself years ago). That is why my original post was short and sweet , using only experience in my answer , which is sufficient to answer the original question.
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Re: Should I carb up on M.A.N.S

Postby Vanguard1965 on Thu Aug 04, 2011 2:18 am

Your right carob999 there is no research confirming what I am saying about Leptin but raising your Leptin levels certainly can't hurt. The carb up does some other important things like preserving muscle and maybe even increasing it while you're cutting.
_________________________________________________________________________________________
Increasing insulin through a carb-loading period is beneficial because:

It helps shuttle amino acids into the muscle cells
Increases Protein Synthesis in skeletal muscle
Glycogen supercompensation (Replenish Muscle Glycogen To Fuel Workouts).
Growth Hormone & Insulin

As stated previously you will also reap the anabolic effects of increasing insulin, growth hormone and testosterone at the same time. Usually when insulin levels increase, the others decrease and vise versa.

It seems that the body (once fat adapted) sees the intake of high carbs at the weekend as a stressful situation and releases growth hormone as a survival mechanism. Increased Growth hormone is your body’s way of mobilizing energy stores to deal with this stressful situation and so at this time you can get elevated insulin and growth hormone levels simultaneously – welcome to muscle building heaven!_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

If you want to advise people that the above is "optional" that's fine but for me I think I will stick with what Mark is saying to do and I would never advise anyone to do otherwise. Especially when everything I have read about low carb diets for bodybuilders talks about how important the carb up is for keeping your metabolism reving to burn maximum fat and keeping your hard earned muscle. So I stand by what I have said and I think I will stick with taking advice from people with a proven track record.
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Re: Should I carb up on M.A.N.S

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