Bodybuilding Forums

Hi all, I am 40 years old have an active life and have been weight training for about 8 months now. To cut a long story short I have been on the CKD diet now for about 8 weeks and its worked with fantastic results. I am a type 2 diabetic and it just so happens that during this time I have had to go to my doctors for my annual blood tests, he says that he wants to see me again in 6 months time with a view to coming off all medication as the diet has worked so well for me. So Mark I hope that may inspire a few to try out the diet.
However back to my questio and request for some advice.
I have been training now for about 8 months and yes getting it very wrong to start with until I got my act togther a bit about 5 months ago and now pretty much follow a good plan. I have found that I get way to tierd trying to do 5 days training which is a shame but have realised for me 3 day splits let me have better workouts with good PR. Just recently my job has become more physical and I probably walk at a fast pace for around 5 -7 miles day now. This has had a knock on effect to my CKD leaving me feeling very tierd come 6pm and although strength remains good I must admit energy wise I am cream crackered. I cycle my carbs on Saturday and Sunday leaving me going into and on Katosis usually around Tue - Sat morning. So first issue is enrgy and getting it back a bit.
Secondly I want to bulk up a bit more however I am one of these people who just seem to put weight on around my belly, I have quite skinny legs, arms are ok but would like more weight on them. I have a good solid waist line and can see my top set of abs most of the time. Like I say though I want to put some bulk on arms and legs but it just seems to go on my gut and not where I want it. I lift weight to PR and this does vary depending on energy levels and type of day that I have had. ;
If I add a little carb to restore energy then I will be out of Ketosis so wont be buring fat as my primary source of fuel, I understand that, but if I dont add enough carb then I wont have enough energy and feel like crap, It seems if I add enough carb for my energy then I also put on belly fat. Akward Git aint I LOL. I do find on CKD my energy levels are great Mon - Thu (feel drained come Fri). But this CKD is not bulking me up and I know its not for bulking but it does seem now I am burning Protien and to be honest I just cant eat any more protein on a daily basis. Any Advice would be greatly appreciated.

Hey Steve,

You should get a lot of replies on this one. I'll be quoting from "The Anabolic Diet" from Mario Dipasquale. It goes in concert with MANS and should give you some motivation. Please don't be offended by my saying mundane stuff. I'm not underestimating what you may already know.

First of all, I'm 35 years old and I started bodybuilding in September 2008. I'm skinny fat, which is a term that describes a person who by definition is an ectomorph (skinny, small bones, longer legs and arms, etc), and the second trait is that they have concentrated fat (men that is) in the belly, love handles, chin, face, or other small deposits.
Here's me (skinny fat)

Note in the picture above that as of the middle picture I managed to remove a good chunk of waist fat... but, after a few months of Anabolic diet I got more muscle but also gain 'some' fat back.

steve832 wrote:I have found that I get way too tired trying to do 5 days training which is a shame but have realized for me 3 day splits let me have better workouts. Just recently my job has become more physical and I probably walk at a fast pace for around 5 -7 miles day now. This has had a knock on effect to my CKD leaving me feeling very tierd come 6pm and although strength remains good I must admit energy wise I am cream crackered. I cycle my carbs on Saturday and Sunday leaving me going into and on Ketosis usually around Tue - Sat morning. So first issue is enrgy and getting it back a bit.

I personally think you might not be eating enough fat (because you're burning calories) to keep your energy and avoid increased catabolism, OR, you're in need of a mid-week carb spike. I would first error on the side of adding some fat to the day time routine. Blend up some safflower oil in a protein shake or bring a bag of walnuts with you to work. NEVER go hungry. Eat when you're hungry, not by a 'schedule'.

steve832 wrote:Secondly I want to bulk up a bit more however I am one of these people who just seem to put weight on around my belly, I have quite skinny legs, arms are ok but would like more weight on them. I have a good solid waist line and can see my top set of abs most of the time. Like I say though I want to put some bulk on arms and legs but it just seems to go on my gut and not where I want it. If I add a little carb to restore energy then I will be out of Ketosis so wont be buring fat as my primary source of fuel, I understand that, but if I dont add enough carb then I wont have enough energy and feel like crap, It seems if I add enough carb for my energy then I also put on belly fat.

"WHEN TO EAT CARBS
A real question that comes into play on the high fat portion of the Anabolic Diet is when to
eat your carbs during the day. Some people spread them out. Others get most of them in one
meal. Again, the answer has to do with personal preference. You can eat your carbs at any time
of day and it won’t matter, as long as you don’t go above the 30 gram carb limit.
But many bodybuilders find eating their carbs throughout the day makes them hungrier and
lazier. They’ll feel sluggish. They get that “turkey dinner syndrome” where they finish and all
they feel like doing is heading for the couch. This is not good, especially for the bodybuilder
who may train during the day and find his motivation affected."

" Wouldn’t it be better to save the carbs for the night? That’s what many bodybuilders do on
the Anabolic Diet. They’ll keep the carbs minimum during the day and find their energy levels
much increased as a result. Then they’ll come home at night and have the bulk of their carbs
with dinner. The carbs at dinner will find them unwinding in the evening hours, relaxing and
sleeping like a baby at night."

"EXPERIMENT
Personal experience and individual body chemistry will have a great deal to do with how you
structure the diet. Above, we stress that different people will have differing responses to the
carb loading portion of the diet, and that the length of that carb-loading period may vary greatly
as a result.
The 30 gram carbohydrate limit is also not written in granite. It serves as a good guide, but
some people may find that they can increase carb intake to as high as 40 grams per day and still
do fine. Others may find that anything over 20 will make them feel sluggish.
You have to experiment here. You may want to start the diet with as low a carb intake as 10
grams per day and slowly inch up every week to see where you feel best and where the optimum
level of carb consumption is for you.
Fat levels may also be experimented with to some degree. Some may find optimum growth
from going as low as 40 percent fat on the diet, but you must beware. You can’t go too low."

"Your body will burn fat as it’s given to it, so don’t worry. You can make some adjustment, but be careful.
If you don’t give the body enough fat, it will burn muscle, which is exactly what you don’t want.

The same principle is involved during the carb loading phase of the diet. You still need fat.
If you don’t give it fat, protein will get eaten up as energy. You also have to remember that the
body will try to transform any fat available to storage fat if you limit fat. It says basically, “I’m
not going to get rid of this stuff because I may need it down the road.” You limit fat in your
diet, and your body wants to lay it on as a way of keeping it around. You end up cutting dietary
fat but not bodyfat.
This may sound like nonsense, but it’s not. Give the body fat and it will use that fat and burn
off bodyfat. The more fat you give it, the freer it will be with enzymes for fat breakdown, and
the more bodyfat you’ll lose. You basically lose fat by eating it."

" Again, it’s important to realize that individual experimentation will play a large role in aspects
of the Anabolic Diet. The diet should be varied to provide the optimum level of performance and
success for the individual. We’re all different to some degree according to body chemistry and needs.
No two human beings are alike. No two human beings will execute this diet entirely alike, either.

We’ll cover some other important variations to help the individual fine tune the diet later in
this book in the “Special Modifications” section.

REGARDING ENERGY:

"ENDURANCE EFFECTS
Again, there’s been a lot of criticism of high fat diets from people who claim that you can’t exert
as much energy per contraction on a high fat diet as a high carb diet. Others have said that endurance
also greatly decreases on the high fat diet. This criticism does not apply to the Anabolic Diet.
First off, it’s clear that fat has been vastly underrated for its endurance and muscle-contraction
capabilities. One recent study showed that decreasing free fatty acids and glycerol (a compound
resulting from the hydrolysis of fats and oils) in the blood can reduce fat availability for exercise,
place increased demands on carbohydrates, and actually lessen endurance.9 On the other hand,
an increase in the amount of fat metabolized by the body during exercise has a glycogen-sparing
effect and improves endurance.10

This was highlighted in a recent study11 that looked at the effect of a high fat diet on six trained
runners. What they found was that the VO2 max and endurance was significantly higher in
those runners who were on the high fat diet as against those that were on the normal, or high
carbohydrate diet.
You also have to keep in mind that the two main fuels for muscle growth are carbohydrate
and fat. There is a very limited store of carbohydrate in the body. But fat is an entirely different
proposition. The average man considered to be in shape on the street has about 15 percent
bodyfat. The average woman about 25 percent. These are huge stores of energy in the body,
and much more available over the course of a workout than carbohydrates.
The only problem that may crop up here revolves around the question of whether you’ve
fully adapted to the high fat diet. If you haven’t been on it long enough to go through the
“metabolic shift” we talk about, you may find the diet affecting endurance. But if you’ve gone
through the “shift,” endurance won’t be affected and will likely be enhanced.12
The other side of the Anabolic Diet is that’s it’s not an entirely restricted high fat, low carb
regimen. With the carb loading on the weekends, we’re allowing a huge amount of glycogen
build-up that’s utilized early the next week. We’re getting the best of both the high fat and high
carb worlds without their drawbacks. You’re getting both glycogen build-up and fat burn-off,
and that’s where growth and definition are manufactured.

THE MIDWEEK CARB SPIKE
After your weekend carb loading, you’ll really be ready to work on Monday and Tuesday.
What happens during these days is that you experience a “biphasic” response to the diet. You’re
still burning fat, but you’re also using all that glycogen you received during the weekend. You
look big, vascular, and find yourself motivated and working hard. You’re basically in both modes,
using both fat- and carb-burning metabolisms at once.
After a few months on this diet, you may want to try a one-hour carb load, or “carb spike,”
based on high glycemic foods. The “carb spike” should be done on Wednesday morning and it
will give you an extra “kick.” You can take in as many as 1,000 calories in the hour. You’ll want
to go right back to the high fat/high protein/low carb diet after this, but a little jolt of carbs can
be very productive as needed. It will drive amino acids into the cell and increase anabolic drive
and, as long as you go back to the Anabolic Diet, you’ll avoid laying on fat.
SHORT-TERM LOADING ON WEEKENDS
Some people may complete one day of carb loading on the weekend and find themselves
feeling poorly. They’re tired, sleepy, and feel like they’re retaining fluid and smoothing out
quickly. If this is so, go back on the high fat diet on Sunday. This will make the diet a 6-day
high fat, 1-day high carb experience, but if this works for you then it’s the way to go.
Again, the length of carb loading depends on the individual. The important thing is to
experiment with the length of your weekend carb load and learn what’s best for you.
Keep in mind that it’s important to document aspects of the diet and its effects on your body. It
may be inconvenient or even painful, but if you’re interested in getting the most out of your
training, you’ve got to chart your progress and responses to changes in the diet. Make notes to
yourself on when you began to smooth out during the weekend, what you were eating, how
many calories, and any other essential information. Leave a trail for yourself."

WOW fantastic reply and thanks for taking the time to explain to me in some detail. I thought I wasnt getting enough fat in my diet if I am honest so will up that and try it out for a week a or two, if I still feel a little tired then will definatrely try the mid week carb spike on the Wednesday morning. Currently I carb up over the weekend and do feel bulked up on the Sunday but very lathargic so thinking about it the mid week carb spike just for that morning may just do the trick. I currently eat about 10g of carbs a day which mainly come from those contained in my whey shake, I am one of those unfortunate people and need a really low carb count to get into katosis however saying that i am lucky in the fact I go into katosis very quickly so as they say every cloud has a silver lining. I must admit it is hard to eat as much as you need especially when your in a fairly demanding job involving a lot of cardio but thats where the shakes come in really, maybe add another one into the menu or as you mentioned the walnuts, need to watch those carbs though. I think dicipline is the key factor also in ensuring you do eat on time and also drink as much water as possible. I was just looking over my logs and over the last few weeks I suddenly realised my meal timings have been a little irratic and my water has gone down a little.
Well once again thank you for taking the time to give me such a great reply and very much appreciated and will let you know how it goes after some adjustments.

steve832 wrote:WOW fantastic reply and thanks for taking the time to explain to me in some detail. I thought I wasnt getting enough fat in my diet if I am honest so will up that and try it out for a week a or two, if I still feel a little tired then will definatrely try the mid week carb spike on the Wednesday morning. Currently I carb up over the weekend and do feel bulked up on the Sunday but very lathargic so thinking about it the mid week carb spike just for that morning may just do the trick. I currently eat about 10g of carbs a day which mainly come from those contained in my whey shake, I am one of those unfortunate people and need a really low carb count to get into katosis however saying that i am lucky in the fact I go into katosis very quickly so as they say every cloud has a silver lining. I must admit it is hard to eat as much as you need especially when your in a fairly demanding job involving a lot of cardio but thats where the shakes come in really, maybe add another one into the menu or as you mentioned the walnuts, need to watch those carbs though. I think dicipline is the key factor also in ensuring you do eat on time and also drink as much water as possible. I was just looking over my logs and over the last few weeks I suddenly realised my meal timings have been a little irratic and my water has gone down a little.
Well once again thank you for taking the time to give me such a great reply and very much appreciated and will let you know how it goes after some adjustments.

Glad I could offer some good advice! You know, if you need more calories from fat, throw a tablespoon of safflower oil in your protein shake. It will slow down the digestion AND give you monounsaturated fat adding 14 grams of good clean fat to the body. Safflower oil has a very mild taste and it compliments liquids in my experience. I can just drink it straight from the spoon, but it goes well shaken in with your drink.

Yes I was going to ask about how I could get more fat in my diet, I know that may sound a stupid thing to say and for anyone on a fat free diet the concept must sound mad but it can be hard to get more fat into your diet plan, must admit I have never heard of this oil so will be down the health shop tomoz getting some.
Thanx again

steve832 wrote:Yes I was going to ask about how I could get more fat in my diet, I know that may sound a stupid thing to say and for anyone on a fat free diet the concept must sound mad but it can be hard to get more fat into your diet plan, must admit I have never heard of this oil so will be down the health shop tomoz getting some.
Thanx again

Sounds cool! I get mine at Walmart or any store where other oils (olive, coconut, etc) are located, just in case the health food store doesn't have any

andrewpmast wrote: Safflower oil has a very mild taste and it compliments liquids in my experience. I can just drink it straight from the spoon, but it goes well shaken in with your drink.

Safflower oil is a good idea; olive oil has done wonders for me, if you take a tbs between bites of whatever you're eating. But they're pretty much the same thing.

I know I'm going to sound like a heretic for this, but here goes.

Lard, beef tallow, butter, and chicken grease are also great ways to boost your fats. Reducing saturated fats offers only a miniscule improvement to your blood lipid profile if you aren't low-carbing. If you ARE low-carbing, your body is consuming those saturated fats, and the improvement in your lipid profile from a low-carb llifestyle is so great that the tiny improvement from avoiding saturated fats is entirely washed out into statistical noise.

So save the drippings from cooking your hamburgers. Make soy gravy from your ham grease. Use your bacon grease to cook your eggs. Truly, live off the fat of the land and see how easy it is to keep the lifestyle going by consuming prodigious amounts of highly saturated animal fats. Beef, is a fantastic source of MONOunsaturated fat, containing more per gram of tallow than even olive oil. And consuming the drippings from your meat gives you back the tremendous quantity of fat-soluble nutrients that cook off, including the low-carber's holy grail: large amounts of potassium.

Yes, I'm completely serious. I don't kid about nutrition.

Well, I do, but I'm not doing so now

--Matt B.

redgiki wrote: Beef, is a fantastic source of MONOunsaturated fat, containing more per gram of tallow than even olive oil.

Yes, a couple of months ago I went to my favorite BBQ joint and they had a (smoke-stained) newspaper article from last year on the wall that talked about how brisket is an incredible source of monounsaturated fat. And the study was done by an Aggie, so you know it's good! (for non-Texans, that means someone who went to Texas A&M University, and whereas we Longhorns may razz them for being backwards or dumb, when it comes to knowledge of beeves and all things agricultural and veterinary, they are second to none. Nothing's too good for my family pets, so I wouldn't have a family veterinarian that wasn't an Aggie.)

So rock on wit' some beef ribs. And pass the brisket, extra-smoked and scabby, please!!!

I never thought of using soy flour to make gravy. I think I love you.

Well my first real week on higher fats although I did start last week and have had my carb up over the weekend, it is hard to think that fat is the answer after all those years of being told to avoid it but I can see and understand why.
I have to admit that I toyed with the idea of this diet for some time and I have read some stuff that makes it a bit controversial but as a type 2 diabetic my bloods have never been this good, I used to average about 7-8 blood sugar which although is not servely high it does and would have had effect eventually and no matter what I was prescribed my bloods would not come down. Since being on the diet I average about 4.5 now with the normal being advised at 5. My actual strength has improved significantly which sounds a bit of a paradox when I was saying my energy felt low at end of the week. There is a difference between the two. When I say lack of energy I also mean just that as in tired and not as in lathargic which again is a big difference. These things alone are major changes bought on by this diet. I have also noticed also that a proper carb up at the weekend 48 hours gives me some bulging muscles come the end of it. My muscles feel like they are tight and heavy but also solid which is great. I do miss the carbs at times but have to say after 48 hours on them I am glad to get back to this plan to settle me stomach again.