Bodybuilding Forums

Mark I read that you do not recommend carbs in your post work out shake since it inhibits the release of growth hormones, I am getting ready to try Creatine Monohydrate but everything I have read so far says to mix it with a sugary juice such as grape juice or to use Dexrtrose.

Alot of the articles I have read so far suggest that using a sugary substance/juice in conjunction with Creatine Monohydrate will be more effective in delivering the Creatine into the muscles tissue versus not using Dextrose or grape juice for example.

I am now totally confused and unsure as to what I should do. I like your suggestion because it eliminates the sugary carbs but on the otherhand I would hate to think that the Creatine isn't being delivered to my muscles as efficiently. Do you by any chance have a link to an article that I can read that claims carbs after a workout have an adverse effect on the levels of growth hormone after a workout. I look forward to your response and from anyone else that can help me in my dilema. Thanks a bunch and great web-site!!!

Fact: creatine uptake requires insulin in the bloodstream.
Fact: low-carb dieters have generally plenty of glucose, and can have plenty of insulin, in their bloodstream.

Your bloodstream normally has around 75-125mg/dl of sugar. A fasting blood sugar in the 90s indicates pre-diabetes. If your blood glucose is ever above 150mg/dl, you're well into diabetic territory, and below 70 is hypoglycemic. So for the average person, you have around four grams -- roughly one teaspoon -- of glucose in your bloodstream at any given time. If the blood sugar rises above one teaspoon total, for instance after a carbohydrate-heavy breakfast, the pancreas releases insulin to store this glucose in your tissues. This is the essential mechanism for the storage of glycogen in your muscles and liver, and formation of triglycerides in your fat cells.

The liver has a very critical function (among many), too. It converts protein to glucose. Except in cases of extreme starvation, the protein found in the bloodstream comes from your dietary intake or catabolized largely from your skeletal muscle. The liver also converts glycerol -- from triglycerides released by your fat cells -- into glucose. This leaves fatty acids, including ketones, in the bloodstream. Most of your tissues can use the fatty acids for cellular repair and maintenance and the ketones for energy. When protein is abundant in the bloodstream, the liver can and will produce as much glucose as necessary from the protein in order to stabilize blood protein levels (it ignores ketone levels, but the kidneys don't, which is why ketones are often secreted in the urine of low-carbers when there is an excess). When the blood glucose rises, the pancreas secretes insulin to store the glucose in various cells, restoring homeostasis once again. Fat cells are the least resistant to glucose transfer, which is why "insulin resistance" is a buzz-phrase in the diet community: if the rest of your cells are fully saturated with glucose, they'll resist insulin transfer and only the fat cells will take up the excess.

This is how people get fat. Catabolism refers to general breakdown of any tissue into its component nutrients; anabolism refers to a general storage of nutrients additional structure or nutrient storage for cells. The best examples of fat anabolism are the obese, while the best examples of muscle anabolism are bodybuilders.

So back to your question. The research indicates that creatine is absorbed only in the presence of insulin. Part of our goal as MuscleHackers is to lose fat (catabolism of triglycerides) which is mostly biologically opposite to our goal of building muscle (anabolism of glucose, fatty and amino acids, and proteins). Basically, your insulin level regulates muscle growth: more insulin, more anabolism. Unfortunately, the same biological processes that bring about anabolism in muscle cells brings about anabolism into fat cells as well. Weightlifting creates a greater need for muscle anabolism -- making muscles build with and store more proteins, fats, and glucose -- than fat anabolism.

What many fail to mention is another little study from years ago indicating that protein enhances creatine uptake with half (or less of) the quantity of carbohydrate (Chandler, R. M., Byrne, H. K., Patterson, J. G., and Ivy, J. L. (1994). Dietary supplements affect the anabolic hormones after weight-training exercise. Journal of Applied Physiology Volume 76(2): pages 839-845). Basically, creatine and glucose uptake are more effective in a protein anabolism cycle than a pure carbohydrate anabolism cycle, because a diet that causes less insulin production results in reduced insulin resistance in the tissues, resulting in more effective uptake of both insulin and the acids and glucose for which it facilitates transport. In fact, protein is demonstrated to more than half the glucose requirement for maximum creatine uptake.

There are some recent studies, too, indicating that supplementing creatine in small doses throughout the day may be more effective than a single dose. Unfortunately, I'm having trouble locating those.

Suffice to say that the presence of insulin is required for creatine uptake, but that consumption of large amounts of protein both inspires insulin production as it is converted to glucose, and dramatically reduces the amount of carbohydrate required for maximum creatine anabolism.

Long answer to a short question; sorry about that.

lifter wrote:Mark I read that you do not recommend carbs in your post work out shake since it inhibits the release of growth hormones, I am getting ready to try Creatine Monohydrate but everything I have read so far says to mix it with a sugary juice such as grape juice or to use Dexrtrose.

Alot of the articles I have read so far suggest that using a sugary substance/juice in conjunction with Creatine Monohydrate will be more effective in delivering the Creatine into the muscles tissue versus not using Dextrose or grape juice for example.

I am now totally confused and unsure as to what I should do. I like your suggestion because it eliminates the sugary carbs but on the otherhand I would hate to think that the Creatine isn't being delivered to my muscles as efficiently. Do you by any chance have a link to an article that I can read that claims carbs after a workout have an adverse effect on the levels of growth hormone after a workout. I look forward to your response and from anyone else that can help me in my dilema. Thanks a bunch and great web-site!!!

There is nothing wrong with ingesting a small amount of carbs, say 5-10 grams, postworkout. Mark actually mentions this in his e-book. Low-carbers bodies are naturally attuned to small amounts of glucose and that amount will facilitate insulin release without endangering your fat-burning metabolism. In this state, your body is primed to uptake nutritents you consume and use them for muscle repair. Please see the thread below: Top 10 Post-Workout Nutrition Myths.

Here is an online article with references at the end that you can research, detailing the issue you are concerned about. Interesting from the article, and of note to everyone on the boards, is that high GI foods also increase CORTISOL, which is the arch-nemesis of muscle growth.

http://www.fitnessforoneandall.com/nutr ... rt_one.htm

Best,
TW

Gents thank you for the responses. Lots of good information! The link was especially helpful along with further reading of Marks articles to support the claim the ingesting these large quantities of sugar/carbs after a workout is not the way to go in that in inhibits the release of HGH. I am amazed at the number of authors out there saying differently, I this misinformation is kinda like what we have been told about how to lose weight- eat a low fat diet, and we know that is not accurate. I've been on Atkins and lost 60 pounds after trying the traditional diets which all failed!

Here is another question. I've read that your body can only take in so much protein so should I space my protein shakes apart throughout the day?

I know you should space your meals out throughout the day. I currently take a shake in the morning when I get up, one in the midafternoon after I workout and one before bed. Is this good enough. Each shake is 46 grams and I also eat one protein bar plus my beef. I weigh 175 pounds. Thanks!!!

Any protein your body doesn't use gets converted to glucose over time by your liver. There's no practical physical limit of which I'm aware; your liver is capable of converting hundreds upon hundreds of grams of protein to glucose for storage in your fat cells every day, so you could get fat eating huge amounts of protein.

I want as little protein as is reasonable converted to glucose. The brain requires around 30-50g/day of glucose to function, as do other organs, and this is why so many people say "your body needs carbs". But your liver can create all the carbs you need from protein! I try to space my protein consumption out throughout the day in 25-40g doses, with a 50g "spike" post-workout. Note my daily consumption is 200-250g of protein, so that's why those numbers work for me @ 171lbs of lean weight. Your numbers will certainly vary.

The waste product of protein metabolism by your muscles and liver, however, is urea. Your kidneys filter it out into your urine. This is another reason to drink a LOT of water when bodybuilding, otherwise the increased protein metabolism will create increased waste that your body has trouble filtering due to insufficient water to do so.

Once again, information is provided by way of explanation. Just get started, do it for several months, then evaluate where you are and ask advice if necessary.

--Matt B.

Matt

How do u calculate your lean weight? I weigh 175 pounds but I am assuming thats not my "lean weight"...

Measure your neck, waist, and height with a flexible tape measure and use the body fat calculator on the front page at http://musclehack.com/ .

Your Weight * Body Fat Percentage = Total Amount Of Fat
Your Weight - Total Amount Of Fat = Your Lean Weight

So I weighed 220lbs (averaged between work scale & home scale) today. I'm 73 inches tall, male, with a 17" neck and 39" waist. The calculator told me that was 21.6% (.216) body fat.

220lbs * .216 = 47.52lbs total fat weight
220lbs - 47.52lbs = 172.48lbs lean weight

Note the calculator isn't exact, but it's close enough. If you can see your abdominal muscles clearly, it's probably not accurate enough for you, but if your abs are hidden under a layer of fat, it's almost certainly close enough to set goals using. You can, of course, get a 7-point body fat pinch test done at your local health club, or use an electronic meter. All methods have their pros and cons, and except for the "gold standard" of hydrostatic weighing, they all vary in accuracy.

And in case you're interested, my goal body fat is 10%. Another bit of math:
Lean Weight * Goal Body Fat Percentage + Lean Weight = Weight Goal

In my case, I'm aiming for 10% body fat.
172.48 * 0.10 + 172.48 = 189.72lbs, or right around 190 pounds. At that point, I may want to look at hydrostatic weighing, keep losing fat until I can see my abs, or bulking my muscles some more through THT + MANS. All depends, I've never been in that good of a shape in my life.

--Matt B.