Bodybuilding Forums

(Read Mark's articles if you haven't otherwise what I'm about to say will be out of context)

The thing I don't get about cardio detracting from your ability to build muscle is that there are so many exceptions to this rule e.g. boxers, MMA's, sprinters, gymnasts, rugby players, basket ball players, some footballers ("soccer" to north americans ) even dancers like b-boys. What are they doing that gets them into that shape, is it just a brutal routine that mere mortals could only dream of (or have nightmares about) doing?

I think there's a distinction that must be made when talking about "cardio" exercise. There's the classic type of cardio which is fully aerobic, steady state, and you pretty much feel like you could go on forever.

The workouts done by the athletes you mentioned, are not fully aerobic or steady state. The important difference is that they require frequent bursts of muscular strength, and the muscles actually burn during that type of workout. Their workouts require that they put out maximum effort, challenging their nervous system and activating all the necessary muscle fibers. They definitely do not feel like they could go on forever like someone jogging along in cruise control.

Also they are not trying to simply get big muscles like a bodybuilder, they are going purely for performance from a strength and endurance standpoint. Take a gymnast and a bodybuilder who both weigh the same and I'll bet the gymnast will out-lift the bodybuilder every time.

The classic type of cardio workout is not very useful like Mark said as it serves only to burn some extra calories in which you could have just not consumed those 300 calories or whatever that day in the first place. But the high intensity cardio which makes your muscles burn and can leave you breathless after only a few minutes, I think is very beneficial for strength, endurance, and improving your physique in ways other than just simply increasing muscle size.

True. Boxers are an interesting example as they are masters of weight gain and weight loss and get in amazing shape yet remain athletic and full of energy, but quite frankly their schedule is insane.

Heres some hints. Google Royce Gracie, and the staunch, outspoken Anti Drug campaigner and representitive Carl Lewis, and... positive drug tests. Why have weight divisions, even in Olympic Judo, the sport where little guys on tv and the movies hurl big guys around with ease? Why do pro athletes risk bans and fines, to use 'supplements', usually 'accidently', even in sports like cycling and tennis? Why not put the world heavyweight boxing champ in with the world flyweight champ (superior endurance and speed)? Manslaughter? Why don't natural bodybuilding champs look remotely like Mr Olympia. Why dont older era bodybuilders remotely compare to modern 'champs'. Why is that the same in all pro sports? Why won't any pro athlete have the remotest, remotest chance of winning Mr Olympia? Elite pro bodybuilding is about looking huge and muscular, no matter what the opinion of that is, thats the goal. As great as the others look along side each other, and as awesome their fitness, they don't get any thing like the development of Mr Olympia. And, Mr Olympia is an absolute elite, extreme expert in the first hint, making the others rate like recreational, inexperienced amatuers, just as the average guy rates compared to them, as far as that first hint goes.

http://www.inshapetraining.com/wp-conte ... a-2009.jpg

http://www.musclesprod.com/wp-content/g ... 009-28.jpg

http://media.photobucket.com/image/Ronn ... o340-1.jpg

http://vojvodina.com/fitness/galery1/images/03_psd.jpg

http://img.xcitefun.net/users/2009/03/3 ... efun-4.jpg

SurferX wrote:I think there's a distinction that must be made when talking about "cardio" exercise. There's the classic type of cardio which is fully aerobic, steady state, and you pretty much feel like you could go on forever.

The workouts done by the athletes you mentioned, are not fully aerobic or steady state. The important difference is that they require frequent bursts of muscular strength, and the muscles actually burn during that type of workout. Their workouts require that they put out maximum effort, challenging their nervous system and activating all the necessary muscle fibers. They definitely do not feel like they could go on forever like someone jogging along in cruise control.

I must be retarded because I've read this eight times and haven't made any sense of it.
Which one should I do if I'm trying to a) cut a little fat (5 pounds) b) build stamina c) and build muscle?

Cheers.

A popular well-known example of non-traditional cardio that utilizes muscular strength and edurance would be "the 300 workout". It's a short intense circuit of big compound movements with no resting. Also if you watch some of how those actors trained (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsYoEFoEohw) you will see everything is very intense, using muscular strength and endurance, no jogging or stationary biking there. That is, in my opinion, what cardio workouts should be, and the type of workouts I find to be the most fun.

oh alright man thanks.
i checked out that video and in my opinion everyone was doing everything way way too fast. like the pull ups were like 1 second up 1 second down or faster! what im thinking based upon your post is that im going to do 5 minutes of non-stop bike at maximum intensity and the hardest setting i can. that should work i hope haha. thanks eh

Hey there!

Firstly, let us understand that there are two type of exercises; aerobic and anaerobic. Anaerobic exercise is what all of us in this forum are doing everyday; weightlighting. The anaerobic exercise makes use of fast twitch muscle fibre which results in strength, power and definition. On the other hand, aerobic exercise is the direct opposite; it makes use of slow twitch muscle which results in endurance and of course, the slow twitch muscle fibre is not cut out for bulking purposes.

In order to build some stamina, burn fat while building muscle, I would suggest intensive aerobic exercises. One example of such exercises is the interval training. The reason being that the muscles you will be using during the exercises are primarily fast twitch muscle fibre. In addition, studies have shown that interval training can ramp up one's metabolic rate for longer period of time. In other words, you will burn fat longer. The downside is that your stamina will not be as good as those who choose to focus on endurance aerobic exercises instead.

One real life example is the difference you see in the bodies of sprinters and marathon runners. Sprinters tend to be muscular while marathon runners tend to be lean. So it really depends on what kind of body you want to achieve.

Hope this helps. (:

SurferX my man one question regarding your video. I've been watching it a few times and i noticed that in one part the trainer says the guys do sprints & a little cardio BEFORE they do the weight training. in Marks article about cardio & weights he says to always do the cardio afterwards.
since here we're talking high intensity crazy ass cardio should it be done before a weights workout? or after do you think?

You're mixing two different training philosophies which don't really go together. Mark's program is not Gym Jones program. A program is made a certain way because that is the way it works as a whole. If you want to make your own program by mixing things you like from other programs, you have to consider exactly how it goes together and if it makes sense.

On one hand, if I was going to do circuit resistance training I would definitely warm up with regular cardio first because you don't have time in a circuit to warm up each body part before the workout, you just have to jump in and do them all at once. The goal behind circuit weight training isn't so much to lift heavier weight but to increase your endurance by completing the circuit faster without having to rest and then being capable of adding more workouts or resistance to the circuit to keep up the challenge.

However if we are talking about normal max muscle building weight training like what Mark is talking about, I would not do any cardio before training because I'd want to be as strong I can be to progressively overload with heavier weight or more reps. You train each body part individually and are able to warm up that body part before your actual work sets. Doing heavy cardio beforehand will take some energy away from that which is why it is suggested to save it for later.