Bodybuilding Forums

Hi. I'm relatively new to the MANS diet/ THT training (I'm on my third week) but have a few (but quite long) questions I really need answered if I'm ever going to even start to progress.

Just a little backstory which may help to answer the questions.
I'm 18 years old, 134lbs.
This weight has remained constant for a very long time. I appear skinny but have next to no definition anywhere on my body. I at (about age 16) originally took my lack of any abdominal definition as a sign that my bodyfat was too high and should be reduced before I started trying to build muscle. This resulted in 2 wated years of unplanned diet/ cardio (low intensity and high intensity) while doing a bit of equally unplanned weightlifting on the side. After 2 years my body hadn't changed at all. I'm probably if anything a little fatter now (due to not being 16 anymore), and maybe a touch more muscular (probably due to my body developing, not my lifting). I'm currently at 7-8% bodyfat, but after learning that percentage this was sufficient to look great (provided you have enough muscle) I decided that this was my goal - to gain muscle.

It was then that I discovered this site, the prospect of the MANS diet and THT training (gaining "slabs of muscle" without putting on fat) sounded like a dream come true for me so i went about implementing them both at once. realising that fat hasn't been my problem I switched my goal to adding muscle. With my naturally low body fat percentage and a low carb diet I should stay lean and recieve the results I've desperatley been trying to gain since sixteen, right?
However I'm dissapointed to note that after three weeks (despite a very promising beginning) my results (or lack thereof) are just as bad as the ones I'm used to (not) getting.

[/b]Query no 1
I heard that it is reccomended to stay low carb for 12 days to ensure fat adaptation.
So I waited 12 days before my fist carb up.
After this my bodyfat had dropped from fluctuaitng betwen 7.6% - 8% to 6% - 7%
This seemed very promising to me. I Finally had found an approach that worked. I had (for once) carefully planned my approach and was now reaping the benefits. But why didn't I look any different form before?
My lean muscle mass had dropped from 118lbs to 115lbs
my total weight dropped from 135lbs to about 130lbs.
This means I lost just as much muscle as I did fat.
I thought that the diet was tailor made specifically to increase muscle mass and
(although not necessarily reducing)keeping fat gains to a minnimum, so what could have caused it to make me dramatically drop muscle in just 12 days?. There must be something very strange going on because this is the first time I have ever lost any fat.

Query no 2
How long is the carb up period supposed to be?
Mike says it can last up to 36 hours (which he states works great for him), but he also states his is form 6pm fri to midnight sat. This is only 30 hourrs. I have also frequently heard a 24 hour period mentioned a lot.

Query no 3

I opted for Fri 6pm - Sat midnight (as Mark suggested) for my carb up period.
But by this time I was very frustrated with my drop in muscle mirroring my drop in fat resulting in me (despite decreased fat percentage) looking exactly the same after 12 days of following the diet. I thought that the carb up insulin spike would be a good opportunity to try to stimulate muscle growth so I ate a lot of carbs during the 30 hour period, regardless of if they came from cereal, pasta, pizza or cookies. After this period ended and I returned to low carb on Sun I found that my muscle mass had increased to its original 118lbs. And my body fat had also increased to its original 8%. So I have once again failed to shift my body composition. I decided this time I would once again go thru the 6 day (or is it 5 day, I'm still unsure) low carb period, because it prooved it could lower my body fat percentage. However this time (in desperate attempts to increase or at least[b] preserve muscle mass, I would increase my daily calories (thru extra fat) and train harder.
It is now Wed and my muscle mass is fluctuating between 117lbs - 118 lbs and my body fat is stubbornly staying at 7.6% - 8%. This is strange considering how fast my body fat dropped after the first 12 days.How long (after a carb up) is it supposed to take for you to switch back to fat burning mode?, it's only two days away from my next carb up and my body still doesn't seem to have switched. Adding to the frustration is my inability to even preserve (much less gain) any muscle. I've been on the diet for about 3 weeks now and my body fat and muscle mass seem to follow each other around. I can't increase/decrease one without the other one following it by theexact[b][/b] same amount. After read all abut how you were in charge of the look of your body and getting extremely encouraged that I could finally achieve the look I wanted to It once again seems like it's just impossible for me to again muscle. I have a low bodyfat percentage and yet nowhere on my body is there any evidence that I work out.

Just some information which may help someone answer these questions;
- According to Marks' formula, my daily kcal requirement is 2,410. So how much should I consume to gain muscle?
So far I've been consuming aprox 2,480-2,580 daily, with from about 19-35g Carb, 160-180g Protein (From reading the boards I've got the impression that this may be too high, could this be a factor in my non existant results?)
- I'm currently 134lbs, 117lbs muscle, 8% bodyfat.
- I'm a little confused on the whole "train to faliure" thing. I certainly train until I can't do another rep. But it's usually not that I'm exausted and I feel that I'm about to die, but rather that I'm so weak that I'm aware that if I try another rep it would be impossible to maintain good form.
-I'm also very uneducated on suppliments. Because of this I avoid them (sans 20g whey protein post workout), is this enough/too much. Is there more about them that I need to know?

Answers/ advide Desperatley needed and will be greatley appreciated.

Yesterday, my bodyfat eventually dropped to 7% and my muscle mass only dropped to 117 lbs. I was starting to become optimistic again.

Today my body fat has gone up to 7.7% and my muscle mass has dropped to 116.4lbs. This means that the only change in my body since I started this diet/training program three weeks ago is a 2lb drop in muscle mass. I am staritng to feel relly upset. Why is the process of gaining muscle so impossible for me, and why am I actively loosing it now that I am intaking more protein/fat calories and less carbs than ever before?. Please I really need advice, you have no idea how incredibly depressing this is.

hey mr. x,,,i wanna start MANS once a finish my TSPA program, about a month...

you shouldnt be weighting your self that way, daily fluctuations happen in all diets. It is also a diet, its not magic. Weight yourself in mid terms..i mean, every two weeks if you are trying to gain mass...and try to get all your daily calories because in a diet like MANS its very important because the lack of carbs.This kind of diet is the best for cutting but for bulking im not sure, i mean, i wanna believe it because i love that way of eating and there are some guys here that it really works, so im gonna try it..

cheer up dude

You sound like the "classic hardgainer"
Why don't you just rty to bulk up, eating loads of protein & carbs & good fats and then diet down?
Your body type can't assimilate all the protein if you aren't getting the carbs & fats to go along with it.
The insulin spike you get with working out will shuttle nutrients into your muscles, but you need all 3 types.
Try adding creatine to your diet

Have you ever bulked on MANS slabbie?

slabbie750 wrote:You sound like the "classic hardgainer"

That's definitley true, but I thought Mark was also a "hardgainer". That's what inpired my faith in this diet/worout program.

slabbie750 wrote:Your body type can't assimilate all the protein if you aren't getting the carbs & fats to go along with it.
The insulin spike you get with working out will shuttle nutrients into your muscles, but you need all 3 types.

That makes sense, but I thought that the weekly carb up was supposed to substitiute for this.
In "Total anobolism", Mark says;
"a controlled spike will do you a world of good. You’ll use a 32-36 hour window (I use the weekends for this) to deliberately cause an insulin spike. "
"On a high carb diet, (usually recommended for the bulking phase of a bodybuilding lifestyle) insulin levels are chronically elevated. You therefore don’t get the edge of maximum release of testosterone, growth hormone and IGF-1."

If I was to sum up my problems in simplest terms it would be;
after the carb up my muscle mass goes up to 118lbs and my body fat 8% or over.
Then during the low carb days my muscle mass drops down to 115lbs, while my body fat fluctuates between 7-8%
Then, after the carb up, my muscle mass goes back upto 118lbs and my bodyfat back upto 8% or over and I repeat the cycle all over again.

I don't need to bulk up with diet. If I eat too much and don't work out, I get fat. End of.
If you are working out with progressive overload ie, constantly adding even the smallest plate every week and sticking (fairly) rigidly to your diet, there's no reason that with compound movements, you won't gain muscle and mass.
Forget isolation exercises, these will come into play when you're near your target weight / shape.

A weekly "carb-up" is fine if you're not a "hardgainer"(sorry Mark), but a true hardgainer needs to work heavy, eat heavy and rest heavy if they waqnt mass and muscle.