Bodybuilding Forums

Y'all, I don't mean to be a bitch, but would you mind moving this stuff to another topic going forward, please? I'm not a mod on this particular forum, so I can't split it off. But I really think it would be a helpful thing to keep this thread focused on Chris's dilemma. I think he's making real progress with his nutrition and I want to make it easy for him to follow the topic without extraneous discussion of who wrote what or said what about steroids.

I think it'd be great if you could make another thread and then come here and post him links to those other topics though! Thanks a lot!

Also, Uplift, I wanted to suggest that you think about writing this stuff down. I would hate for us to be saying down the road about you the stuff that you just said about these guys you corresponded with who left without putting their knowledge down for posterity. Maybe just what you can remember gleaning from them, and then you could even include a section with your impressions and conclusions that extend their body of knowledge. What do you think about that idea?

Gidday Marochka, I thought about what you are saying re Chris before posting the Blair stuff, but I feel his situation is due to lack of nutrition, and Blair dealt with numerous situations like, or far worse than his spectacularly. I was serious about my advice to him to seriously consider the eating style. So from that point of view the more real world proven info he has before him, relating to people in his situation, about nutrition, the better.

If I trained Chris as a client, (and I no longer work as a Trainer), I would be telling him things totally contradictory to some of the advice given here, particularly regarding milk, hydration, nutrient replacement after hard work. And I would do so with the utmost confidence, due to extremely successful experience in numerous similar situations... mine, numerous clients, my contact with the likes of Blair and other successful trainers, and their incredible results, plus, importantly, considerable amounts of experience observing and experiencing advice that blatently doesn't work, often given and administered by so called, and qualified, 'experts'. One of the first things I learned, from dealing with doctors, is, as far as nutrition goes, they don't learn anything much about it, so don't know much at all. Also they are experts in treating symptoms, not prevention, and rely heavily on drugs/medication. It is a massive part of their field, drug companies literally fund them. They spend most of their training learning about drugs, administering them, and much of their later practice involves keeping abreast with the bombardment of new drugs released on the market. I have friends, very succesful ones, who have actually left the field due to pressure to rely on and support the drug industry. Not to say that I don't respect doctors, or see their extremely important place in health, and my limits in their specialties.

This forum is great, but one thing I always keep in mind when offering advice, especially specific advice, and particularly when the situation is serious, like Chris's, is would I put it on the line, professionally? Would I be prepared to fully back myself, be totally confident what I am telling him would work, and be totally, professionally accountable? And do I really have the knowledge to deal with whatever may arise on the journey, and to be sure I could truly deal with the full scenario, to its succesful completion. Totally seriously now, you say the guy is making great progress, yet he just ended up in hospital! I would take the exact opposite view and tell him bluntly just that. Whatever he is doing, just put him in hospital, so a change is blatently obvious, to me. And I would monitor that situation extemely carefully. It reminds me in a different way, of the endless streams of clients I have dealt with, who listen to the advice of a certain style of naturopaths, who advocate cleansing diets, low protein, and fat, and when the people are literally collapsing before their eyes, dribble on about cleansing, purging of toxins and garbage, until the clients can take no more. I have seen people lose hair, teeth, and so on, yet still blindly stumble on. And I have also seen and successfully dealt with them, witnessing 'miraculous' speedy recoveries when a bit of sound, yet totally contrary nutrition is applied.

I thought seriously about this post Marochka, as I don't want to have all our contact and communication seem as clashes. And I feel you are very enthusiastic and passionate about all this, and sincere about helping others. But I am 100% confident in my advice, and know I totally would be in a professional situation also.

So, to you, Chris, my best advice would be get serious mate. You need face to face help. Don't beat around the bush, ideally, find a trainer you can deal with face to face, one who has the score on the board. Where there's a will... Next best is seeking out one from the many web based trainers. Its easy to discern good trainers from bad, check their results, with many people in similar situations as yours. Check their accountability. Then having found what you are looking for, follow their advice, trust and listen, put it into real practise. I stand by any advice I've given you. I also feel digestive enzymes with every meal would be very helpfull to you. There are some awesome trainers out there who love what they do, and who will look at you in that light, not as a walking, talking ATM machine. But, bottom line, its your choice, its up to you. How sick of this are you really, how important is change to you, really?

You are right Marochka, its a shame about their knowledge. The biggest shame is the way it was viewed when they were alive. In Nigel's case, he died a very bitter and disillusioned man. He really had miraculous results, but he also really was viewed in the light of a professional threat by many so called 'specialists' and 'experts'. Similar to Blair, many of his clients were seeing him secretly, whilst the 'experts', unable to really help them were basking in the glory. But, ultimately (and I am extremely mindfull how easy things like this are to say as an outsider), it was his choice to buy into all that, and to pour himself into that, as with Blair. It is particularly sad to me, because I spoke with him at length just before he died, and to see someone, someone like him, some one so caring and kind, who treated needy people for free, who set up youth organisations and so on, who had actually, truly given so many their life back, so embroiled in a state of disillusionment, feeling so betrayed, depressed, and physically financially wanting, really struck me. I'll put my neck out here, but when he died, Nigel was working on something so brilliant that it made all his other stuff pale into insignificance. And that he was close to marketing, that would have made an awesome, world wide difference. However he was also dealing with big drug corporations ideals and ruthlessness, and just couldn't cope with them. Personal development, how our minds work, how we can change, benefit from and use our thoughts and beliefs is really important to me, I wish Nigel and others had embraced it.

lol How sick of this am I? Every muscle in my body started cramping and spasming like crazy. It something I never wanna go through again in my life.

I am going to start drinking milk again. I haven't drank any in a long time. lol When I was younger and into sports allot people used to mess with me. We would have a long day of playing. Everyone would go for coke or something when they got back to my house. I would go straight for the gallon of milk. lol I need to do something though. I went back to work yesterday and today just to work to lunch. Yesterday wasn't real bad, But today I started cramping again. not near as bad, But I am still having some. I need to figure out why I am getting so dehydrated though. I drink till my stomach hurts and still end up like I am. The doctor here seems to be a moron. Telling me water is fine Well its not working for me during the day. If it was I wouldn't be cramping up and getting dehydrated.

Thank you all for your advice. I am trying my best to take everything I can for it. Please don't get in arguments over this stuff. Everything you do in life has more than one way to do it. One thing I love to do is learn every way there is to things. You never know when you might end up taking from dif. people ways of doing things and end up finding a new way that works for you even better.

Again thank you all for the advice. Hate to have posted the stuff about my medical problems, But figured it was needed to know for any moer advice that was given to me. I do get a little long winded some times too. So if I end up off topic or something just tell me to shut the hell up lol

Uplift, I am glad you thought seriously about it before posting it. I am also glad that you posted all the information. I was just hoping you might put it in its own place so it is more organized, readable, and easy to refer back to/discoverable by others who are not necessarily following this thread.

I haven't disagreed with any of your advice either. As a matter of fact, I recommended yogurt, cottage cheese and Greek yogurt, so I fail to see where we're at odds here. I never said that he shouldn't drink milk; at times I may have expressed that those other choices can be lower in carbs than fluid milk, but I do not think Chris's concern should be with limiting carbs at this point! When I said he was making good progress, I meant that he was starting to eat more food and also to get a more adequate protein intake and getting some more veggies in. If you think I'm wrong about that, well, we can agree to disagree.

His winding up in the hospital was a semi-unrelated issue with electrolyte imbalance, which is why I mentioned an electrolyte replacement drink long before he landed in the hospital. He's not my client, but he has become my friend. I don't care if he drinks milk, Electro-Mix, or grape kool-aid, I just want him to get better whatever it takes! I think we can all agree at this point that drinking nothing but plain water isn't going to cut the muster, yes?

Chris, I urge you to go to your doctor and get copies of your bloodwork. I would be not at all surprised to see levels of sodium, calcium, magnesium, or chloride that are too low. You have a right to that information (though you may have to pay a modest copying fee).

How are you doing today?

Gidday Chris, I would be trying the thermos thing, that is sipping say a litre or two throughout the working day, every hour at least. Its easy, I would even do it at basketball trainings. Just sip, swish it around in your mouth sip, think of how babies use milk, dont gulp it. Same with your food, chew it really well. Blair was big on those things, and so am I. For other, mental reasons as well, it focuses your energy on what you are doing, eating for health. Optimises nutrition and digestion. Lots of people gulp their food down, making each digestive step more difficult.

Milk is excellent at replacing elements needed after hard exercise. So are eggs. Another thing I agree with Blair and others about, from much experience with many people, is examining, paying attention to what you get out of what you put in. On paper many foods look great. Huge amount of this and that, but getting this and that into your cells is another thing. Unfortunately most experiments are 'in vitro', producing results nothing like using our digestive system. Often, you'll be using huge amounts of energy/nutrients to actually get a deficit. And that is where milk and eggs excell, in fact (and I prefer to be vegetarian for moral reasons) that is where animal based foods have it all over vegetables and fruits. Vegetarians will argue forever, but the crunch is to see how hard you can actually train, and remain anabolic, until you can't recover. And I would say to the average person, seriously think about this, if your diet won't cut a few cardio sessions, a few workouts, at Joe Public levels... honestly you should see how hard some elite athletes can train, and progress, and deal with the relentless pressure. Some do it on top of running a 'normal life' with all its intricasies. Even among them, again from much experience, mystery viruses are accepted, common, as many of their diets are restricted by false, ingrained, habitual belief patterns.

Your thread brings up many interesting scenarios Chris, and disagreement is enevitable, so don't concern yourself. Doctors are like trainers, shop around, take charge. You are paying for a service, expect value, and find a doctor with results on the board. Then, again keep in mind you are a paying customer, treat it just as you would when dealing with any other payed service provider. If you, as a customer are treated less than desirably, shop else where. But, at the same time treat your doctor with the respect you would like.

There are many keys in this thread, and on this forum. As a long time trainer, I see things analytically, sift through them quickly... read through the lines if you like. Heres a tip. There are many well meaning people, who want to help and offer advice. (A)You will notice some people post about how happy they are with their results, about how good, how inspired, how quick they heal, and so on, how good they feel. How easy to workout and so on. Pay attention to those scenarios, something is working. (B)Others will post about less than desirable results, not feeling motivated, not recovering, feeling flat, always injured, and so on, pay attention to those scenarios, something isn't working. My experience has shown me habits, thinking patterns, and diet, nutrition are crucial, so when people in catagory (B) tell about their beliefs, diet, or beliefs on nutrition it gives indications about what isn't working.

Diet can effect our brain chemistry, and visa versa, how we think, or more importantly, how we feel. How we think and feel affects our brain chemistry, which in turn can effect our diet. Its all linked. Again, beliefs, habits, ingrained patterns are critical. Our feelings, thus our thoughts. Thats how we change, it must be mental at first. Unfortunately that can be extremely difficult for some, particularly as many people see it as a crime, as inferior to not know something (courtesy of our education systems), and would rather fake it till the end. Also, many people identify themselves with their beliefs, ('well, thats just me, who I am, I have to be honest and accept it'). So change is viewed as false, as a sign of weakness, as losing themselves.

Again Chris, its simple mate, but, its up to you. You want a different outcome. You must feel, think, and act in different ways. Clues to peoples success are everywhere. Its easy in this internet age to find any information you want. And I literally mean, any information you want. Forget training for now, concentrate on finding an eating style that helps you feel awesome. That makes work easy. You mentioned you had no problems, and some success with milk earlier in your life, try that as a starting point. Keep what goes in, for what benefit/cost in mind. Have a filling, healthy breakfast, steak, eggs, some vegetables, or along those lines. Fat/protein every meal. Have digestive enzymes with your meals. Pineapple and Papaya are one great way to enhance digestion, plus, high in C and flavones. Take at least 3 grams of C a day, time release is best, otherwise 250 grams every couple of hours, more if working really hard. Use ZMA, twice daily, midday and before sleep. Make use of the mixes I mentioned. Eat a healthy lunch, ie tuna, or oysters, or sardines, or beef, eggs, with enzymes again, avocado's, bananas, berries, some nuts, kiwi fruit. Sip mixes all day. Have a healthy tea, (evening meal), make mega porridges, oats, millet, buckwheat, flax oil, cream, milk, protein powder, manuka honey. Have a protein meal or drink, with cream and oil, flax, udo's, fish, or an avocado, whatever you prefer, before sleeping, sip all drinks, chew all foods. Use enzymes. ZMA before bed. Vitamin C throughout the day. Multi in the morning and with your protein/fat before bed. Plus, drink water between meals, not with them, but keep getting plenty of good water. Buy healthy breads, make healthy sanga's, imagination is unlimited. Remember rest and sleep.

Again, its up to you, how sick you really are of it. Think about battered women. Some, for whatever complex reasons never get sick of it, despite what they may say, and are battered to death. Habits, beliefs are a powerfull, double edged sword. There is a wealth of knowledge on Mark's actual website too, and others. Bottom line, its up to you to take charge, the choices are yours.

Gidday again Chris, it took less than 60 secs to find this;

http://www.musclehack.com/

Have a look at the incredible amount of free information and research... the passion, care and effort, at your finger tips.

At present I am here, I live here on and off, and will be here for the next 4 months. This is as remote as it gets, an island in the Philippines, North Siargao. I love surfing, surfed all my life, so am here. 'Experts' told me internet is impossible here, I trade markets, so want internet, real good internet. Here I am, ADSL speeds, courtesy of an Ipstar satellite dish, and imagination.

The photo of these guys is a photo of 4 of the financially poorest people you will ever encounter. Look at their faces. They radiate happiness. Everyday they deal with death and hardship, beyond our experience. No hospital, no doctor. A serious accident is usually fatal. They eat fish, dog, pork, (chewing huge slabs of fat, their ultimate prize!), rice and coconuts, plus roots and plants from the jungle. How to get over cutting out chocolate? They wouldn't begin to remotely understand what you mean. They work growing, harvesting and processing coconuts. All manual, climbing rope free, carrying, chopping, loading, paddling canoes to boats, etc, etc. All dangerous work. Human powerhouses. Low bodyfat masters... callipers... water testing... calorie counting????

I lent the muscly guy in the green shorts, 'Pido' a small amount of money to make him and his friends some surfboards. He had learned it from a westerner he worked for on another island. This is what he did in a hand built bamboo and thatched shelter, dirt floor. Have a look, the conditions he created these boards in are ludicrous. But, its what he believed, imagined he could do, what he truly wanted. Astounding, awesome. Most people would give up before even finishing the shelter. Before climbing the radical cliff, to cut and get the bamboo, then lugging it miles back to the village.

I want to train, to workout, I want protein, vitamins, so:

http://baratohon.weebly.com/

Plus I use US websites, and. It means catching a few boats, to get it out here, its a blast.

Then I have this.

http://www.fitnessanywhere.com/

Plus, rocks, chinups, dips, bamboo, whatever my imagination can create.

Again, look at their faces. Powerfull...beaming. Get serious Chris, you actually have the world at your fingertips, abundance laying at your feet, people throwing help at you. Make the most of it. How sick are you really of your situation. Its truly up to you, totally just your choice.

Hey Uplift thanx for the advice. I havent really been training or anything. My job is very demanding. I am having problems just making it through the work day. My mind still tells me I can do things that at could when I was 20. My body seems to disagree though lol. I went to work for only a 1.2 a day yestersday and day before and was whiped out. Thought I was gunna have to go back to the hospital. It just worried me that I might not make it back to 100% and be able to take this work and be out in the sun for 9hours a day. It makes me feel week and helpless and I hate that feeling. I have the mindset of being the strong one. In my groups of friends whole time growing up. I was the strong one. I did things no one else would and made sure no one messed with me or any of them. Right now I just feel kinda like a failure with my body turning against me.

I will try that thurmas thing you are talking about. You saied eggs and other things. Are you talking about raw eggs? If so I thought you could salmanilla or something from that. I will read back over your post. I am open to try out anything right now. I would eat my shoes if it would make me better lol

Gidday Chris, I can't advise you to eat raw eggs, professionally. A quick, rough calculation shows I ate around 30,000 raw eggs over around a 12 year period. I never had salmonella. Blair talked about it, and this was his advice back then, for preparing eggs for smoothies, mixes.

'Blair would also four or five regular meal each week, consisting of turkey (his favorite), lamb or
beef. He did not eat fruits or vegetables, except for one or two slices of tomato.
Blair's $1,000 Method for "Cooking" Raw Eggs
Rheo Blair took four eggs a day, prepared in this manner. It is a low-heat method that kills
bacteria and cooks the egg, but does not destroy their nutritional value. Blair told Iron Man writer
Howard Sanford Young he considered the secret worth $1,000, but gave the method to his
students for free.
The method is simple: Heat water to a temperature of 180 to 185 degrees (Fahrenheit) in a
saucepan or stockpot. Use a kitchen thermometer to make sure water stays within this
temperature range.
Add eggs (in the shell) to the water and simmer at this temperature for 25 minutes.
The eggs are then ready to eat or add to your protein drink.'

In my situation, with my work/training load, I ate 6 - 8 raw eggs daily, and around 8 - 16 cooked... fried in butter, soft/hard boiled, poached, omelettes, quiches, scrambled, custards, buckwheat pancakes, etc, etc.

Your present thinking is not helping you. You turned against your body, its simple. Like having the toughest car, and treating it like shit. It will last and last, and then when it finally collapses, it collapses. Luckily the body is amasing, it can self repair. Your mind is amasing too, and you can change it at will.

You are strong, you know it, you love it. Dramatically improving your nutrition will help your feelings and thinking dramatically. From all angles. You feel empowered again, that you are taking charge, responsibility. Your chemistry is altered dramatically, resulting in a whole new outlook. Look at this positively. You have woken up, you are changing. Some people don't, and it kills them.

Practise this, its free, anyone can do it, no matter what their financial situation. Anytime you begin to feel doubt, fear, helplessness, anytime you notice don't feel good, address it. Think about, recall times you felt awesome, like when you felt you were supporting your friends, times when you felt really happy, really passionate about something, times when you were doing things really well. Go there vividly, for just a few minutes, let the feelings saturate you, then imagine you now, the super healthy , happy confident Chris, with that same feeling. Just spend 5 minutes, its all it takes to alter chemistry... feelings. Use your imagination. Ie, imagine you writing here, confident, helping someone else in a similar situation to you, confidently assuring them not to worry, because you turned a similar situation around, you created an awesome diet, awesome health. Imagine. Imagine a real life scenario like Richard described. It happens, its possible, so its easy to imagine. Imagine you are powering in your workouts and a guy comes up to you in the gym, and asks if you can get him some of the 'gear' you are using. Imagine how good it feels to tell him you don't touch the stuff, you have mastered, abundant health. Spend some time thinking about good things you are doing. Like changing now. Like your will to keep going, whatever you can.

Mental workouts. Just like physical ones, if you've got yourself out of shape, there are challenges, and you need to persist, to do them regularly. The thing is they are totally free, available to anyone anywhere, anytime. And our nature is to be happy, its our circuitry, we are wired to seek happiness. And to create, to change. So, just like a person who was once extremely muscular, then got out of shape, getting there is much easier than starting from scratch. Plus, the rewards are astounding, far surpassing anything physical workouts can produce. The sky, your imagination is the limit here. One final, crucial tip, keep it fun, keep it easy, keep it exciting, imagination, passion.

So, if I were your trainer, that would be it, two things. Focus on mental workouts, and focus on creating a deluxe eating style. In this day and age, its easy, fun. All the info is literally at your fingertips. Honestly Chris, its really up to you now. Have fun.

Hi Chris! How are you doing? I hope you're just not posting because you're back at work full-bore and working really hard but feeling great doing it! Drop in when you can.

How do you know when you've done enough?

When you come out of the gym shaking and starving, thats when.

Right then is when you need a shake (with protein, carbs &creatine) to feed your muscles. About 20 mins later, you need solid food like a steak, potatoes and veg, and before you sleep, another shake.

You don't even need to buy protein powder, as you can build your own "anabolic" shake with milk, yoghurt, honey, eggs and a banana.

Don't train for the next 2 days because of your job and then go back to the gym and watch yourself grow !