Bodybuilding Forums

Hey guys!

First time posting, I apologize for asking something that I know this is probably common place knowledge but the search feature doesn't like me at the moment...

I am looking for which would be better for me to focus on, muscle building vs fat loss, I realize bigger muscles = more calorie burning power but I am in the beginner seat all over again and haven't put a focus on working out since varsity football a decade ago, and desk jobs + fast food have taken their toll since.

I am 28, 5'10 245.5lb avg and about a 35-36% body fat from best I can tell, not a pretty picture believe me.

I have 13 months until my wife and I have a renewal of vows and our first honeymoon (didn't get to have one when we got married), I want to be my wife's (physical) dream man so I am reaching out to all sources.

Best description of my goals I can give for common reference is I would like a (and have a similar body frame to) "Hugh Jackman" build (like his real life pictures, not necessarily "hollywood sized"), he is obviously quite solid even though he is not super defined. I am tired of being squishy, I would like to get to the 165-175lb range (much less than that and I start looking like a stick) and be pretty solid and a lot less of a marshmellow man... I am a family man so some of the extra fats will always be in my life but I know I can greatly improve my diet I am just not sure which direction to go in first, cut calories and boost cardio or boost proteins and manage calories to try and bulk.

I am reading as much as I can but as Mark points out there are a lot of different tips, opinions, contradictions and way to do things, so any input is greatly appreciated. I have a feeling I will be on here a lot.

After doing some more reading, I see that the Spinach Assassin is really good with the numbers!

I have added http://www.thedailyplate.com/ to my list of sites, I noticed she said 2lbs a week is a good goal to lose, which is fine for me, but to make it a bit more complicated I also add this question.

My wife would like to lose 2.5 lbs per week to obtain her goal weight, is this pushing to far?

Also wanted to note that I have downloaded the free ebook and from what I read so far (about page 55) it is definitely a tool I will use for muscle gain!

Unless your wife is really obese, she will not lose 2.5 pounds per week without significant muscle loss. So sayeth The Spinach Assassin! And actually, what I said was that 2 pounds is really about the max you could realistically lose if you're a big guy and you have lots of time to work out and prepare your food carefully and you're a beginner. Nothing's ever so cut-and-dried.

Gain muscle vs. lose fat is the eternal question... but at your body fat, you will probably want to focus on fat loss and muscle preservation. So actually, neither of the things you said, I'm afraid. I'd recommend eating the proper amount of protein for muscle gain/preservation (2.75 grams of protein per lean weight kilogram), doing the THT workouts and maybe include one or two interval training workouts per week.

Don't worry so much about the numbers and your "deadline". Speaking as a woman, I can tell you that your wife isn't going to go "Ooh, you lost an average of 2 lbs. per week! Dead sexy!" She's going to see the effort you put over 13 months into eating for increased health and working out to build your muscle and improve your cardiovascular fitness. Being energetic enough to do things with her and being around to be with her when you're old is one of the best gifts you can give your lovely wife. She'll think that's sexy no matter what the scale says! I hope y'all enjoy your "real" honeymoon! Someday me and my lovely DH will renew our vows and take a real honeymoon too.

(Standard disclaimer: The Spinach Assassin fell into a depression and disordered pattern of eating several months ago that she is just starting to recover from and has gained a good bit of fat along with her muscle, so feel free to consider any and all of her advice pure hokum. )

First, thanks for all the tips.
Second, I totally agree with what you say, doesn't make me want to be fit any less though
Third, my wife is probably considered pretty obese, she would shoot me if she saw me post this but from the calcs we did she is close to 40% BF at the moment and we are both doing this for health reasons too, we have young kids so we need to be around for a long time. The Renewal is a good target date, being over a year away, to try and get close to our goal weights. We know we may fall a little short but we both really want to put in a full 110% effort...

From what I have read, a good workout should not last much more than 45-60 minutes, is this still relevant for someone just starting back into the world of weights?

Also I am a stay at home dad for right now, so I do have some time for making good meals for both of us, I make her about a 1700 calorie breakfast/lunch/snack pack for work right now (just started Monday) mainly of fresh veggies/fruits/almonds and either tuna or chicken with the occasional little sweet (100 calorie granola bar typically) to edge the urge to splurge.

I do have another question, when people like us, in our BF% look at keeping muscle mass vs losing fat, is the keeping muscle mass as important vs say cutting big calories? My wife is doing the 3 day melt dvd cardio/resistance workout right now, 2lb medicine ball for resistance and they have her on a pretty low calorie diet w/o much protein. Granted she has Never had much muscle (tiny toothpick in highschool), but with less to lose does it by any chance off set the equation at all? Her concern is burn lots of fat now, tone later, I have never had to help train a female before so I dont know what to tell her.

Sorry for being so nub, been so long since I have looked at fitness information and so much of it has changed...

Thx again for the help!!

65Fairlane wrote:I do have another question, when people like us, in our BF% look at keeping muscle mass vs losing fat, is the keeping muscle mass as important vs say cutting big calories? My wife is doing the 3 day melt dvd cardio/resistance workout right now, 2lb medicine ball for resistance and they have her on a pretty low calorie diet w/o much protein. Granted she has Never had much muscle (tiny toothpick in highschool), but with less to lose does it by any chance off set the equation at all? Her concern is burn lots of fat now, tone later, I have never had to help train a female before so I dont know what to tell her.

No. It is by far MORE important. Do you know what happens if you don't work hard to maintain the muscle mass you have? Your caloric needs actually go DOWN. So you lose the weight you wanted to lose, and you have to eat less and less and less to maintain. It sucks horrifically. Muscle = metabolism = good! Lift heavy, build muscle. Y'all are still new enough you can gain muscle and lose fat simultaneously.

Her concern is exactly backwards and will lead to a vicious downward spiral of dieting and lowered metabolism. I would spare her that pain.

45-60 minutes is the outside for the length of a workout. Anything longer will cause a cortisol response, which is linked to fat deposition, particularly in the midsection in the "unhealthy" around-the-organs configuration. This is different from the typical "pear-shape" of a woman. The fat a woman stores in her behind and hips is considered less dangerous than the stuff on your belly. This is particularly welcome news for me. If my name wasn't "The Spinach Assassin" it'd be "Wide Load". I got a lotta junk in the trunk...

Also, there is no such thing as toning. It's a craptacular bill of goods being sold by personal trainers looking to cash in on "Biggest Loser" fads and sell disposable tiny weights. Do you know what lifting tiny weights trains your body to do? Lift tiny weights. You can lift a 5 pound weight 50,726 times but that will never get you to doing a full body weight pull-up.

Who needs a 2 lb. medicine ball?! Canned goods are cheap and you can recycle them when it's time to move on to something meatier! I do repent the tedious hours I did spend in "body sculpt" and step aerobics class. Well, that ain't exactly fair. They were a gateway into bigger and better things, but I could have put that time to better use if I'd known better. I have never been a tiny toothpick, even in high school, but I never had any muscle either. Your wife can go from 40% body fat to a normal body fat. She'll just have to be patient. I know, because I did it. But it took a year and a half, and I don't have any kids to look after so I could exercise basically whenever I wanted. It's not a reason to give up, just to adjust her expectations on the time frame.

And pretty low calorie diets without much protein are a recipe for disaster. Do you know what your body does if you don't feed it enough protein in food? It gets it from other sources. Let's see... where do other animals store their protein... oh yeah! Their meat! A.K.A. muscle.

If you have a local library, look for "The New Rules of Lifting for Women". The explanation of diet is very good and clears up why protein is so very necessary when you're trying to lose fat. I just started the workout program a couple of months back, and I like that too. But if she goes for it, she'll bust her hump more than she ever has in her life, I can promise that!

If you have any more questions let me know. I may not have any answers, but that sure doesn't stop me from having enough opinions to choke a horse!

Thanks again for all the info, irritating that I knew all this at one point but had long forgotten. Thanks for the refresher course. I will definitely check out the library to see if they have the book. I have to be careful with her as she has a bad disc in her low back that she has to strengthen around but I know if we are very careful it will be all the better for her in the long run. Any other books you would recommend for me besides Total Anabolism? Just got my Library card a few weeks ago and its burning a hole in my pocket

I am sure I will come up with more questions soon thanks again for helping the noob!

You're quite welcome! We were all teh n00bz at one point.

Yes, she should start very easily and work up slowly to avoid injury. I have joint hypermobility that has resulted in several incidents with physical therapy, so I understand how important this is. Just listen to your body and go at your own pace. You're not accountable to anybody but yourself, so if somebody's pushing you do to something you're uncomfortable with, just think "piss on them, I'm the one who has to live with the consequences, not them!" and go about your life.

Check out Mark Rippetoe's "Starting Strength". That one is also widely well-regarded. I've not read it though.

We did some testing of new exercises to help strengthen her back, definitely going to take some time...

Headed to the Library today to get the books you recommended (right after breaking the bank on kids school supplies.../sigh)

My question of the day is that my wife and I have been doing low calorie (and I have boosted the protein count, lots of tuna, chicken, eggs and almonds) and we have been hydrating pretty hard, what is it that we are losing to drop 6-8 lbs in a week (granted its the first week)? Is that mostly water weight even though we are drinking more water now than before?

Yep. Especially if you do a low-carb diet (or just lower the carbs you're taking in) you will see a dramatic drop in water weight at first. It will level off after that. I think I lost 8 pounds in my first three weeks when I started dieting. And when I do low carb and then carb up, I can put on 8 pounds of glycogen and water in a 1 day period. Well known phenomenon.

Hi Fairlane I have just started this program from Mark today, I noticed you have a 30 day that has not been filled out. Have you stuck with it, how much did you lose, just curious cause it sounds like were in the same boat here. Little more than 250 lbs for me, see the funny thing about my situation, over 10 years ago I was built like a brick sh!t house, I inline skated everyday, ran, the whole 9. The problem is now I SMOKE which I am quitting, which is tough, then on top of that I am WAY out of shape.
Just curious of your success!