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In tht Mark tells us that for each set we should drop set. I was wondering is this really important? Wouldn't the muscle still get the same stimulation by leaving the same weight on the bar each set and pushing for as many reps as you can each time?

Perry789 wrote:In tht Mark tells us that for each set we should drop set. I was wondering is this really important? Wouldn't the muscle still get the same stimulation by leaving the same weight on the bar each set and pushing for as many reps as you can each time?

As long as you can maintain the minimum of reps called for (8 reps in THT Volume) you can keep the same weight.

Hey perry789

Thats how i train but it usually overlaps itself each week, and i was more or less told i was training wrong by joh when i gave this advice to someone in here a while back but i cant see how unless i didnt explain myself properly, here is my monday shoulder and trap session fo this week for example:

Overhead shoulder press: 38kg db each hand 12reps with spotter for 12th rep,
db lateral raise: 14kg each hand 12 reps spotter for 12th rep,
Overhead shoulder press: 38kg db each hand 11 reps with spotter for 11th rep
db lateral raise: 14kg each hand 11 reps spotter for 10 & 11th rep,
Overhead shoulder press:38kg dumbell each hand 10 reps spotter for 10th rep,
Bb shrug 200kg 12 reps,
Bb shrug 200kg 10reps

Next week my set that i hit 12 reps with this weight will increase and my other weights will not unto i hit 12 reps on them, joh said to the guy that you up your weight each set as long as you train between the 8-12 rep range it doesnt matter.

Now i trained like this before and i hit plateaus to quickly and got stuck on them meaning i had to go lighter weight with more reps to try and blast through my plateau and it made my training alot tougher and prolonged my strength increase than it is now. My philosophy on this is THE MIND IS STRONGER THAN THE BODY if i told myself it is ok to just squeeze out 8reps i know for sure i will drop that weight at 8reps even though i probably could push another 2reps out, that why i train for 12reps each and everytime, even if i hit 11 reps with a spotter i am still trying to push that 12th rep out sometimes i get my arms up 2inches sometimes 6 inches but i am screaming to try and hit 12.

What i am saying sure makes sense to me, if mark says lift your max weight in your first set then how can it be your max if you are lifting your max in your second set that doesnt make sense. yes i train at my max weight every single session and i dont mess about, strict form everysingle time and a spotter in place if i need a little hand but i still wont sacrifice form at this stage.

I agree with you perry yes i do use my max weight first set but i always train for reps because i think this is the best way to stimulate growth with max weight to maxamise progression instead of adding weight doing less reps then plateauing.

@joh i'm not slagging you bro this topic cropped up again and i thought i would give my opinion on it again, maybe i am training wrong but this is the way i train and it works better for me and over the years that iv trained this way, for the reason above as i also said i give my reason above as to why i dont increase my weight and settle for 8 reps at second or third set.

HUGE RESPECT TO YOU BRO FOR ALL THE ADVICE YOU HAVE GIVIN ME IN HERE YOUR STILL MY BUD

dsharp wrote:

Perry789 wrote:In tht Mark tells us that for each set we should drop set. I was wondering is this really important? Wouldn't the muscle still get the same stimulation by leaving the same weight on the bar each set and pushing for as many reps as you can each time?

As long as you can maintain the minimum of reps called for (8 reps in THT Volume) you can keep the same weight.

What if I can't say I only complete 5, would this matter so much as I would still increase the weight next workout if I got 12 reps on the first set. Would this slow my progress at all?

LALA wrote:Hey perry789

Thats how i train but it usually overlaps itself each week, and i was more or less told i was training wrong by joh when i gave this advice to someone in here a while back but i cant see how unless i didnt explain myself properly, here is my monday shoulder and trap session fo this week for example:

Overhead shoulder press: 38kg db each hand 12reps with spotter for 12th rep,
db lateral raise: 14kg each hand 12 reps spotter for 12th rep,
Overhead shoulder press: 38kg db each hand 11 reps with spotter for 11th rep
db lateral raise: 14kg each hand 11 reps spotter for 10 & 11th rep,
Overhead shoulder press:38kg dumbell each hand 10 reps spotter for 10th rep,
Bb shrug 200kg 12 reps,
Bb shrug 200kg 10reps

Next week my set that i hit 12 reps with this weight will increase and my other weights will not unto i hit 12 reps on them, joh said to the guy that you up your weight each set as long as you train between the 8-12 rep range it doesnt matter.

Now i trained like this before and i hit plateaus to quickly and got stuck on them meaning i had to go lighter weight with more reps to try and blast through my plateau and it made my training alot tougher and prolonged my strength increase than it is now. My philosophy on this is THE MIND IS STRONGER THAN THE BODY if i told myself it is ok to just squeeze out 8reps i know for sure i will drop that weight at 8reps even though i probably could push another 2reps out, that why i train for 12reps each and everytime, even if i hit 11 reps with a spotter i am still trying to push that 12th rep out sometimes i get my arms up 2inches sometimes 6 inches but i am screaming to try and hit 12.

What i am saying sure makes sense to me, if mark says lift your max weight in your first set then how can it be your max if you are lifting your max in your second set that doesnt make sense. yes i train at my max weight every single session and i dont mess about, strict form everysingle time and a spotter in place if i need a little hand but i still wont sacrifice form at this stage.

I agree with you perry yes i do use my max weight first set but i always train for reps because i think this is the best way to stimulate growth with max weight to maxamise progression instead of adding weight doing less reps then plateauing.

@joh i'm not slagging you bro this topic cropped up again and i thought i would give my opinion on it again, maybe i am training wrong but this is the way i train and it works better for me and over the years that iv trained this way, for the reason above as i also said i give my reason above as to why i dont increase my weight and settle for 8 reps at second or third set.

HUGE RESPECT TO YOU BRO FOR ALL THE ADVICE YOU HAVE GIVIN ME IN HERE YOUR STILL MY BUD

LALA, we're both looking at this the exact same way and expressing it differently.

I think I know the me-reference you're talking about - the guy that was lowering the weight halfway through the set to hit 12 reps every set. That's horse manure and ought not be done. The "right" amount of weight is failure reached at least 8 reps, but not more than 12 for each set. When you get to 12 at a certain weight, it's time to up it - like week 1 if you can hit 11 reps at 80 lbs, then week 2 you'd want to hit 12 reps at 80lbs, then week 3 you'd go to 85 lbs and at least 8 reps. As to drop-setting, yep, same thing, each successive set you need to be able to hit between 8 and 12 reps. You're not likely to hit 10 reps at the same weight 3 sets in a row because you just fatigued the muscle - literally tore up the tissue that gave you the strength to do that. So you drop the weight by 5lbs (or 10, or 2.5, whatever the smallest interval is), to get the number of reps in the same range. If you can hit failure in the same number of reps with the same weight on a successive set, I'm thinking you probably didn't hit failure on the first one. Or, put another way,

LALA wrote:What i am saying sure makes sense to me, if mark says lift your max weight in your first set then how can it be your max if you are lifting your max in your second set that doesnt make sense.

Week over week, your sets should more or less trend together - you shouldn't develop huge gaps in weight between sets, you should be able to add more weight to each set at around the same time. Now as to plateaus, experience dictates that allowing big gaps in weight between sets can create a plateau as well. Developed this problem on biceps, beyond frustrating - I got up to 15lbs between 1st and 2nd set and blammo no more progress for me. As in stopped dead in my tracks, same number of reps at the same weight week over week for like three freaking weeks straight (and on biceps, why's it always gotta be something noticeable?! ) I broke it by knocking some weight off the first set and coming up a bit on the 2nd (even though I hadn't actually gotten 12 reps) and resumed making progress - basically I took the 15lb gap down to a 7.5lb gap, and I was off to the races again in a week.

So... in a nutshell... Dropsetting good, cuz it allows training to positive failure each set. Progressive overload good, cuz, well duh. Prevent plateaus by training to absolute failure each and every set, don't do weird things with the weight, and don't allow huge gaps in the amount of weight on each set just the smallest available increment like Mark has said more than a few times.

@ joh

Good man you have again gave a BETTER explanation thank you for clearing it up for me and i hope the message has got accros properly to guys reading this, IF YOU ARE JUST STARTING TO LIFT WEIGHTS FOR THE FIRST TIME EVER YOU NEED A STARTING POINT WHEN TO START, 12 REPS IS YOUR MAX LIFT YOU MUST MAKE SURE YOU ARE LIFTING AT MAX WEIGHT FIRST OFF IF YOU HAVE ONLY HIT 11REPS AND CANT GET THE 12TH REP UP THEN BINGO, SO THIS IS YOUR STARTING POINT THEN AS YOUR WEEKS PROGRESS YOU INCREASE YOUR REPS TO NO FURTHER THAN 12 REPS WHEN YOU REACH 12 REPS ON YOUR VERY FIRST SET THEN YOU INCREASE THE WEIGHT OF YOUR FIRST SET THEN WHEN THIS HAPPENS ON YOUR 2ND 3RD SETS ETC YOU KEEP INCREASING AND THIS GIVES AN OVERLAPPING EFFECT ON REPS, WEIGHTS AND STRENTGH AND YOU MUSCLES GET THE PROPER STIMULATION TO FORCE GROWTH, NEVER INCREASE BY TO MUCH WEIGHT THIS HAS TO MANY NEGATIVES ON BUILDING MUSCLE YOU KNOW YOUR OWN BODY AND MAKE THE SENSIBLE DECISION AS TO WHAT YOUR MUSCLES CAN TOLERATE WHEN GOING TO INCREASE OTHERWISE LIKE JOH AND MYSELF HAS SAID {YOU HIT A BRICK WALL}

@ PERRY789

Your second question doesn't make sense bro ( What if i only hit 5 reps on my second set would this matter so much as i would still increase the weight next workout if i got 12reps on the first set, Would this slow my progress at all?) If you hit 12 reps on your first set surely i would imagine that you can reach a higher rep for your second set than 5 like 9 or 10 reps, i dont know as this has never happened to me this way and cant see that it would actually happen unless you werent trying hard enough. Choose the weight that you can handle between the 8-12 rep range like we'v said and incourage the overlapping method GOOD LUCK.

I mean if I leave the weight on the bar the same for my second set as it was for my first set.

Hey perry789

In my honest opinion if you can hit 12 reps on your first set then take your rest and go for your second set you shoould be fit to hit at least 8 reps, but if you think you cant hit 8 reps then drop it by a few pounds to make sure you hit the minimum 8 reps then next week increase your first set by a few pounds cos you hit 12 reps last week and your second set next week try and hit 9,10 11 or 12 reps with with the weight you used for your second set do this third set and so on and so on then you have the overlapping effect going on each week and each workout as your strength increases, hope this helps you bro i cant explain it any better to you

Thanks for the replies and help