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hi can anyone tell me the best way to deal with deltoid pain? Im not sure if Ive been doing tht shoulder exersises wrong. I have had deltiod pain from my last workout. Thanks

clayton wrote:hi can anyone tell me the best way to deal with deltoid pain? Im not sure if Ive been doing tht shoulder exersises wrong. I have had deltiod pain from my last workout. Thanks

Ultimately the best way to deal with the pain is going to be isolate and eliminate its root cause. However, this is not enough information for us to give you any idea what's up.

Please describe the nature and location of the pain. Sharp? Dull? Throbbing? Ache? Intermittent? How severe? Is it aggravated or alleviated by any given motion or position? Any repsonse to ice, heat or analgesics? Any history of shoulder injuries? Is it the muscle or the bone that hurts, and where exactly? When did it start - during the set? Immediately after? Next day? You could be doing the exercises wrong, you could have damaged something, or it could be an old injury flaring up. It could also be simple muscle soreness if you've been out of the gym for an extended period of time.

Thanks, I have had a previous rotator cuff injury and some neck and forearm pain in the past(on my right side, as I am right handed). i have let the injury rest for the last few days and applied ice as well as some stretching etc and the pain is a not quite as bad. I am worried the next time I train that i may do some more injury. Not sure about pushing to failure especially if I am going to do some injury. I am open to any suggestions about training with injuries and the best way train. I also think a neck problem may be related to this.

clayton wrote:Thanks, I have had a previous rotator cuff injury and some neck and forearm pain in the past(on my right side, as I am right handed). i have let the injury rest for the last few days and applied ice as well as some stretching etc and the pain is a not quite as bad. I am worried the next time I train that i may do some more injury. Not sure about pushing to failure especially if I am going to do some injury. I am open to any suggestions about training with injuries and the best way train. I also think a neck problem may be related to this.

So you have my cranky shoulder.

Here's the bad news - I've never seen a shoulder injury heal correctly without surgery. The fact that this stems from an injury likely means to some extent it will plague you for the rest of your life to some degree. I separated my AC joint eleven years ago, and it still gives me grief.

The good news is YES, you can in fact prevent further injury!

Absolutely take the time to stretch - just not before your workout. Stretching prior to working out weakens the muscle that you're about to ask to put up with a very heavy load on a malformed joint. Stretch after your workout, or later in the day, or on off days - but do stretch, and not as a warm-up.

Use strict form for all shoulder exercises. Most guys can get away with a little sloppiness on shoulders, and most guys should - it's the difference between strict and biomechanically optimized form, and generally, the latter is the better option. For instance, allowing a little swing in the back for bicep curls, or allowing the bar to come a little behind the head and the elbows to move back a hair when doing skullcrushers. However, for us, the joint is just not going to put up with that. The issue isn't the muscle, it's the joints - which is the same reason you use strict form for deadlifts. Whatever exercises you find make your shoulder hate you, drop the weight significantly and perfect your form. You'll generally find there's a "sweet spot" - the exact right point at which you can hold your arm and shoulder, and the exact correct path of the weight, that yield the least pain. This is the way you'll need to do the exercise for the rest of your life. If you can find no such point (like for me, frontal raises are always an inordinate amount of pain), you may need to drop the exercise from your routines permanently and substitute it with something else.

Machines will be your friend, at least until the muscles are strengthened enough to hold the joint in place. While not optimal for growth, lateral raise machines will place less strength on the joint than dumbbell raises by virtue of using half the length of your arm, not all of it. This will allow you to build up some strength and eventually switch back to dumbbells or to cables. For overheads, try using a smith machine. The path of motion is fixed, so you don't have to worry as much about your arm moving backwards or forwards and increasing the risk of injury - plus you can adjust the stoppers to shoulder-height so if something becomes painful you can just let go of the bar. With the smith for overheads, there's actually no sacrifice of overall efficacy, so if you find them less aggravating you can just keep using the smith.

Also, incorporate exercises that specifically target the problem area - in your case, your rotator cuff. Internal and external rotator exercises will help redevelop the damaged soft tissue and strengthen the muscle (which is no doubt atrophied from being babied because of the pain, not that that could've been prevented). I can't find the video I want, but here is the basic idea. I really recommend you do them standing, ideally with your back against something to prevent you from wobbling. Note that the start of the rep is forearm perpendicular to body at a 90 degree angle - and not greater. For external rotation, start at the same place, but use a cable from the opposite side and rotate the arm away from the body. Use light weights, and do not rep to failure - 2 to 3 sets of 10 or 12 is sufficient, this is all Type I and IIA fibers we're developing, failure and hypertrophy aren't part of the game with these very small stabilizer muscles.

The other big piece of the puzzles is the exercises that involve the shoulder muscles indirectly - all of your chest day, and any type of row on your back day.

For chest day, don't be afraid to modify the movement. Personally, I use a smith instead of a freeweight for shoulder presses to take the stabilizer muscles in my shoulder completely out of the equation, and I set the arms on the pec deck a stop further in than neutral. I give up a tiny fragment of the overall efficacy of the exercises, but I don't blow out my shoulder which means I don't have a layoff to put up with. Pay attention to your shoulder on chest day - if it's aggravated by anything at all, mind your form, and if necessary modify the motion to reduce the anterior deltoid's involvement - typically meaning a slightly smaller range of motion from bottom to top of the rep.

As to the rowing-motion exercises, some folks this bothers more than others. For me, bent over rows tend to be tantamount to me thinking "Gee, I think I'll injure myself at the gym today," and cable rows have to be done with strict form - hooks to hold the handle, shoulders back, lats engaged and held tight, and move through the rep slllooooowwwwlllly. They're such a pain in the everything that I generally just don't do them and stick to deads and lat pullovers instead. Your mileage may vary considering the nature of the injury here is different, but all rowing motions necessarily engage your posterior deltoids, and rotate the shoulder. If you feel aggravation in your shoulder from rows, again, tighten up on your form, modify the exercise if necessary, and if all else fails jettison it entirely and substitute something else.

All of that said, there's one other thing that's troubling here - the neck and forearm pain (unless you meant upper arm, in which case that makes sense ). Rotator cuff injuries would not cause this. Shoulder injuries in general should not cause this. I am worried that there is some other condition not related to your shoulder, that may be the result of simple poor form or having pulled or strained your neck or your forearm to some degree. Because your spine is involved (your neck), I'd recommend a visit to a good (read: certified member of the ACA) chiropractor - who can take xrays and tell you if you need to see an MD or if it's something they can rectify for you.

Thank you so much for your help and taking the time to reply. All the best to you.

Ah, another chapter for my book "JoH on Bodybuilding".

Solutions sure sound good. I also found if I arched my back it puts me in a better form since I am chronic hunch over type.
I also read somewhere, probably "The 7-minute Rotator Cuff Solution", to always bench press below the nips, never above. Incline, decline, straight press.
Supposedly this avoids the shoulder(s).

Hello all buddies here in this thread,
I also want to know about this kind of the pain and also the relief from this kind
of pain... In this era the posting made by Joh is much helpful as there is advice and
some kind of the best way told by him to do the better one......
Thanks for sharing this kind of the posting and giving advices to all the guy's suffering this
kind of the problem....

JohnOregon wrote:Ah, another chapter for my book "JoH on Bodybuilding".

Still waitin' on that royalty check... damn publisher...

JohnOregon wrote:Solutions sure sound good. I also found if I arched my back it puts me in a better form since I am chronic hunch over type.
I also read somewhere, probably "The 7-minute Rotator Cuff Solution", to always bench press below the nips, never above. Incline, decline, straight press.
Supposedly this avoids the shoulder(s).

Gotta love how no two screwed up joints are screwed up in the same way... if I arch my back too much it's all snap crackle pop for me. Mine at least gets less bothersome the stronger it gets - but the increasing weight means increasing strain on it and less margin for error... bit of a two-edged sword... no matter, as long as I don't ever drop a dumbbell on my head again I'm good.

And you are right on the positioning for bench press, btw. I find just a little bit below works well for me, though I've seen guys place the bar much lower.

I arch back, but not too much if someone else was looking it wouldn't be that noticeable but for me, it feels like alot since I've spent my life hunched over.
As a kid I didn't want my butt to stick out, scared of being "queer bait". serious. respectfully to all types and walks of life.

How can i make my running injury better? Yesterday i went for a 5k run, i haven't been for a run for a week now as last week i competed in a 5k race and thought i'd have a week off. About 15 Min's into my run i hurt my knee, i think it's a ligament? But was wondering whats is the best way of helping the injury so i can get back to my running asap.
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