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I was thinking of doing a Shoulder and Trap routine based around Mark’s routine but a bit different. I have added some Scott Presses which I know Mark might be against this exercise due to some arm rotation like the Arnold Press which Mark feels you can’t handle as much weight as normal dumbbell overhead press, but this is more of a lateral movement which going heavy is not as important as form on this movement any thoughts?

SHOULDERS......................................
1 Seated Overhead Barbell Press 4 min rest

2 Incline Dumbbell Lateral Raise 0 min rest
2 Seated Overhead Barbell Press 4 min rest

3 Incline Dumbbell Lateral Raise 0 min rest
3 Seated Overhead Barbell Press 4 min rest

4 Scot Press 0 min rest
4 Cable Upright Rows 4 min rest

5 Scot Press 0 min rest
5 Cable Upright Rows 4 min rest

TRAPS.............................................
1 Barbell Shrugs 2 min rest
2 Barbell Shrugs Finished


Incline Dumbbell Lateral Raise
http://www.t-nation.com/strength-traini ... eral-raise

Scot Press
http://www.t-nation.com/strength-traini ... cott-press

On a personal note on this, I finally figured out how to do lateral dumbbell raises without pissing off my right AC joint. Roll the shoulder forward a bit more, palms facing back at the bottom of the rep, straight down at the top, and keep a bit mroe of an angle in my elbows and BANG! No more pain in the front, just that lovely tingly burny feel right down the center of the muscle. You have no idea how happy that makes me - even if it did happen the last week of my last TSPA cycle. Whatever, it just means I know what I'm doing from the first week on the next cycle!

Which leads me to my knee-jerk reaction on that Scott press... that looks kind of joint un-friendly. If you don't have a history of shoulder problems, then this is likely a non-issue (and I hate you). If you do, go stupid light on the weight until you get the form down and you know the motion itself won't irritate your joints. Personally, having had my right shoulder flat-out collapse during simple overhead presses on me in the past, you'd have to put a gun to my head to get me to try this. If you do not have my busted old man issues and are feeling adventurous, it doesn't look "bad" in and of itself.

As to the motion itself... I'm not sure it's as effective at isolating the lateral head of your deltoid as the T-Nation trainer would have you believe. The primary action of the lateral head of the deltoid is moving the arm laterally away from the body. It's involved with other movements, like flexion (think front raise) and transverse abduction (think reverse flys), but it is not primary with those movements. That Scott press strongly resembles transverse abduction but done seated instead of lying on your stomach. It will, absolutely, hit your lateral head, no bones about it. It will also - especially for the first like 2/3 of the rep where you're moving the weight out from the centerline of your body to the sides - engage the posterior deltoid moreso than the lateral. It doesn't strike me as the hugest of huge deals, but it is what it is. The amount of motion does give you more chances to injure yourself, too. The more complex the motion, the more chances to screw it up. If you're bored to your wits' end with regular lateral raises I could see subbing these in for a while just to prevent losing your mind - but the mechanics are such that I'd bet they'll be marginally less effective.

Also - following them with cable uprights doesn't give quite the same superset as you're probably thinking it does. Military/barbell overheads hit primarily your anterior deltoids while also engaging the other two heads (particularly at the bottom of the rep). Standing upright rows are more your lateral delts. You're basically supersetting a lateral exercise with a lateral exercise. A better choice would be whatever iteration on an overhead press you please, or front raises.

Your incline dumbbell lateral raises are basically the same damn thing as a regular lateral raise. I would tell you to use an even number of sets that start with them for one reason - you can only do one side at a time, so like it or not, one shoulder or the other is getting a rest between sets. Even number of sets means each shoulder gets the same amount of rest - and the same number of bona fide supersets.

Shrugs are shrugs are shrugs. Barbell, dumbbell, cable, machine - doesn't bloody matter. My gym has a plate-loaded machine specifically for them that I really like, though ultimately it's put weight in hand and make shoulder touch ear, and that's that.

warmup is really helpful for these exercises if you have squirrely shoulder like me.
I can tweak my position with not much weight until I know I'm lined up to my least-chance-of-injury-stance..

I don't like anything to do with Larry Scott how that chump ever made Mr O is beyond me but I suppose at that time there wasn’t much competition but he did have a nice pair of Guns and had a better body then I carry.

Seriously Larry Scott made all his exercises over elaborate go on YouTube and put in Larry Scott Hyper growth System in the search bar. For laterals I only do seated lateral dumbbell raise’s I guess the reason for the incline lateral raise described in the video do stop you from cheating or using momentum by swinging the weight up but that’s why I do seated. Remember if you can’t hold the WEIGHT for more than a second then muscle never got the weight there in the first place.

All you can do is give it a go and see what results you get that's the best advice I can give.

Your incline dumbbell lateral raises are basically the same damn thing as a regular lateral raise. I would tell you to use an even number of sets that start with them for one reason - you can only do one side at a time

JoH watch the vid guys using both arms at the same time

Wow what has poor old Larry Scott ever done to you krs

I have nothing against Larry Scott as a person or bodybuilder just me going on a crazy rant. In fact I respect the time and dedication theses old school bodybuilders like Larry Scott gave in their quest to build their body’s which they never had fancy machines and fancy supplements like we do now!

If you look at the video Larry Scott Hyper growth System certain exercises like rows, dips made more difficult than then they needed to be, but again he did give us the Scott curl bench commonly named the preacher curl bench.

All I am saying is the normal dumbbell standing or seated lateral raise has been used time and time again why because it works but go ahead and try the Scott Press it might work for you. Now the incline bench video you posted seems ok as it is a dual movement and limits any cheating and would work well when super-setting with seated barbell overhead press you would not be able to do this if one arm was used at a time. Just like to mention that it is a good option sometime to throw in an one arm incline dumbbell lateral raise, which you lay on your side not back and lift the dumbell about 3 quarters of the movement only never to shoulder height as normal this will keep tension on the lateral when lowering you never let the dumbbell rest keep it about 6 inches off your side so it acts like a cable would tension througout the total movement from top to bottom.

With the upright rows you would be better to superset with seated dumbbell overhead press.

I'm gonna give the Scott Press a try a see if it like me.

krs wrote:Your incline dumbbell lateral raises are basically the same damn thing as a regular lateral raise. I would tell you to use an even number of sets that start with them for one reason - you can only do one side at a time

JoH watch the vid guys using both arms at the same time

Here I go and figure I'd spare myself the unadulterated nuisance of YouTube on an Android phone cuz I thought I knew what he was talking about - and I don't. Fabulous.