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I found that on the Freemotion Chest machine I can do Declines, Inclines, and Flies.
These all are a replacement for my Bench Press, Incline Press, and machine Flies.

Any remarks? I don't have any other options for Decline, which I hear is better than regular bench press.
I would assume that the cable science applies here, giving a better tension at the top than a bone stacked bar or machine.
Also, I am bringing my hands together at the top of the movement for Declines and Inclines. Not sure if I should.

Here is the machine.
http://www.freemotionfitness.com/webapp ... 009_136753

Looks good options use it. Also don't worry too much not being able to do decline press you can’t really isolate the chest because all of the chest fibres will be firing when doing flat incline or decline. The real difference that decline will give is mainly taking the stress from the shoulders which flat mainly is the main cause of all shoulder pain.

Yes! thank you. I do want to avoid messing with shoulder area. This cable machine allows decline of any angle, incline of any angle. I just have to make sure I point my hands at the angle each time. Added bonus is that I can make sure my Incline is less than 45%.

thanks a bunch krs

Hey johnOregon

Yeah great machine the range of motion you'll be fit to get with this machine will really show up great detail on your chest as you get into your lower bf and you can really concentrate on your negative reps to get a great pump, yeah bringing palms together is great for adding more tension to your chest i personally would rather have cable machines for my chest workout simply for the pump.

I train just of flat press all the time at about 10 degree angle it takes the pressure completey away from the shoulder while still working the middle part of my chest and 35 degree or so incline and i nearly always use dumbells when using free weights instead of barbell because its a better range of motion, better pump and helps strengthen both arms equally and better at isolating the chest, i find barbell very restricting, not a big fan of decline myself i think incline gives the chest a better look, decline makes the chest look longer but it depends on what works best for oneself and how it suits ure upper body, john to be honest not a big fan of training chest, i love training legs and back they would be my favourite bodyparts to train, second would be shoulders and triceps, sorry for going of the beaten track abit

Hey LALA,
No apology needed. Good stuff.
I have zero chest, always have, so I look forward this workout. Also, it is a comfortable workout as opposed to the "snap crackle pop" of backs and legs. oi vay! I hate them.

It's hard to believe declines make your chest look "long". It's only one muscle and I've totally stalled on flat bench press.

But it looks like I made a good move switching over to cable. thank you very much
one of the advantages of a big gym

I know this machine well. I go to a great big gym, too. LA Fitness to name names, and mine was just renovated a few months ago. LOVE having access to every machine ever imagined.

IMHO, cables beat freeweights in almost all cases, because neither the load nor the plane of motion changes with cables, whereas with freeweights they do (think top of a bicep curl). At my gym, the Free Motion machine sees less use than the other chest machines (though damned if I know why), so I've been mulling over making the same change you're talking about, John, though with the same reservation - my right shoulder gets cranky pretty easily. Do you find the cables any easier on your joints?

Oh, and LALA - leg day is awesome. Biceps on the other hand...

Yeah LA Fitness is where I hang. I got one next to home and one next to work.
For my left shoulder irritation I just got to make sure I arch my back, lower my shoulders back as per my acupunture/massage/ex-wife says to do.
It seems so easy to just avoid the irritation by consciously not bothering it. I used to breeze through it and shrug my shoulders to excuse the pun.
Now I do a warmup with no weights and feel for the good place where it doesn't hurt. This is always with my back arched more consciously and my shoulders down and back.
This is not unique to me, for one, and Tim Ferris has some pictures in his book that show that this is how shoulders should be placed.

And why are you asking me? I'm not the expert. . . . well . . maybe I am. Ex-wife also showed me a stretch for the shoulders and front that I've never ever seen anywhere.
Lie on your stomach, do a keegle with your hips against the floor and raise up on your elbows and fists, arching the back from the waist up, kinda pushing chest and abs out and forward. It stretches the abs and chest. Who ever thought of that? The point being she pointed out (and she is not the only one) that we spend our day hunched over our computers or whatever and we lift weight for the front side but we never balance the back.
The other stretches I got out of "7-Minute Rotator Cuff Solution" years ago. there is a chapter on shoulder injuries and stretches for them.

As far as cables go, you are right on about all the science and the anectodal too that no one uses them. My frickin' pecks hurt today by the way. And the movements are exactly what you talk about in other posts where you reach peak compression point with the hands close together yada yada

here are your obligatory smilies. I put them out of the way so as not to distract:

Hey johnOregon

Decline hits the lower part of the chest, i know its all the one muscle but you can hit certain parts of it with certain excercises like decline for instance, it definitly adds size to the lower side of the chest making in my eyes it looking longer (OR MAYBE I'M JUST TRIPPIN) i just find just of flat and incline my chest sits out better from my torso area and around my collar bone area it gives a better seperation from shoulder and trap area also.

My chest is quite big but i think the way i have trained it over the years it gives an elusion that it is actually bigger when it is bouncing of my torso and shoulder, traps area, i also train arms out as far as possible to hit the outerpart of the chest better i think some people train with their arms in to close for ego purposes to show guys in the gym what they think they can lift but they are actually calling on to many muscles to help with this which does cause overtraining in these areas. IF it works for you bro then go for it this game is all about individuality, i found that out the hard way , i was strength training for years when all i wanted to do was bodybuild (YES THERE IS A DIFFERENCE PEOPLE) ah well at least i got strong out of it GREAT TOPIC ON CHEST BY THE WAY

@ Joh

Cheers with the compliments in some of the articles bro it gives me a real confidence to see the likes of yourself letting me know that i'm giving good advice i appreciate that . IT's not that i have knowledge i just gained great knowledge from people over the years and it all helps me put pieces of my own jigsaw together (WILL MY JIGSAW EVER BE FINISHED?) I dont know but i will keep building (THATS FOR SURE) I have learned alot from every article that that these guys write and i hope they do with me, i wish a website like this was about twenty years ago, NOW I'M GETTING CENTIMENTAL Your knowledge and articles are top drawer i love reading them

LALA wrote:Hey johnOregon

Decline hits the lower part of the chest, i know its all the one muscle but you can hit certain parts of it with certain excercises like decline for instance, it definitly adds size to the lower side of the chest making in my eyes it looking longer (OR MAYBE I'M JUST TRIPPIN) i just find just of flat and incline my chest sits out better from my torso area and around my collar bone area it gives a better seperation from shoulder and trap area also.

Just mind on those inclines not to go too high. About 30 degrees is sufficient - and anything at or above 45 is going to be more delts than pecs.

LALA wrote:My chest is quite big but i think the way i have trained it over the years it gives an elusion that it is actually bigger when it is bouncing of my torso and shoulder, traps area, i also train arms out as far as possible to hit the outerpart of the chest better i think some people train with their arms in to close for ego purposes to show guys in the gym what they think they can lift but they are actually calling on to many muscles to help with this which does cause overtraining in these areas. IF it works for you bro then go for it this game is all about individuality, i found that out the hard way , i was strength training for years when all i wanted to do was bodybuild (YES THERE IS A DIFFERENCE PEOPLE) ah well at least i got strong out of it GREAT TOPIC ON CHEST BY THE WAY

You mean form matters more than ego?! BUT THE BROS AT THE GYM WILL THINK I'M WEIRD!

Wait... they already think I'm weird... and I enjoy that look I get from doing deads and squats at like twice my weight, and leg presses at close to four times my weight...

LALA wrote:@ Joh

Cheers with the compliments in some of the articles bro it gives me a real confidence to see the likes of yourself letting me know that i'm giving good advice i appreciate that . IT's not that i have knowledge i just gained great knowledge from people over the years and it all helps me put pieces of my own jigsaw together (WILL MY JIGSAW EVER BE FINISHED?) I dont know but i will keep building (THATS FOR SURE) I have learned alot from every article that that these guys write and i hope they do with me, i wish a website like this was about twenty years ago, NOW I'M GETTING CENTIMENTAL Your knowledge and articles are top drawer i love reading them

Hey if you were giving bad advice, I'd beat you up just as bad... :LOL: A lot of my knowledge comes the same way you got yours - trial, error, and experimentation over the years - and no that damn puzzle never seems to get finished! Access to top-notch research over the years has helped too (yay for having permanent access to three university library systems), and a myriad of health issues has pretty well forced me to aggressively learn everything I possibly can on health and fitness in general, and on building muscle specifically. I won't lie, some of it's been utter hell for me personally, but for forums like this and the chance to share knowledge and acquire new knowledge help more than can be put into words. Be it using an abject failure of my own to help someone else, or learning something new about supplementation, or just the little exchanges like this of hey thanks that helped, I find the community discourse to be like gym for the mind - and knowing someone else is getting that out of it same as me is like rep #12 on the set.

Wait... they already think I'm weird... and I enjoy that look I get from doing deads and squats at like twice my weight, and leg presses at close to four times my weight...

Yeah, I hear you. Plateaus are a bitch. They keep staring wondering why you can't do more.